“I had been faithful and active all my life. I held callings, served a mission, was sealed in the temple and everything that was considered “on the path”.
Then, in the middle of a divorce at a young age (only 23), my husband shared his years of research against the church and I took in all of it in a few short months. Podcasts, videos, blogs, forums, articles, books, etc against the church, “proving” that the doctrine was completely false.
Pretty soon, not only had I announced to my family I was leaving the church, but I didn’t even believe in God at all anymore. Religion seemed silly and naive. Something made up by well-meaning people to help others navigate the difficulties of life. But the Mormon religion seemed especially repulsive. The church felt cultish and dark and I felt relief to know better and be free from it.
Then one afternoon, while thinking about my new life…the spirit led me to important questions. How would I explain to my children that our extended family was religious but we were not? If leaving the church means more money, more time on the weekends and less rules, am I taking an easier path?
Did I REALLY know for sure that God wasn’t real? Could I, with my limited understanding, so easily settle a matter that has been debated for centuries by the brightest minds in history? And then I thought, if it’s not real…then you just die and nothing matters. But what if it is? IF this is real…EVERYTHING matters. I won’t know for certain either way so maybe I need to give it a chance. I decided I needed more information so I could be certain.
So I searched MORE, asked MORE and Gods answers came. Slowly over the next two years I received line upon line and rebuilt my testimony like a convert learning these truths for the first time.
A mentor that knew of my struggles suggested that I read "The Crucible of Doubt" by the Givens. I read it all in one day and felt a flood of spiritual reassurance and power that I hadn't felt in a long time. I knew I was onto something.
So I started with the basics. If I want to know if God existed, maybe I should try praying to Him. If I want to learn about Christ, maybe I should read about Him. Read what He taught and said. I decided that I might never believe in God again fully or have a testimony like I once did but that I wanted to live my life as if it were ALL true. Just in case.
My first bishop back was a huge blessing. He assigned me to teach 4 year olds in primary. It was the ABSOLUTE perfect thing my fragile spirit needed. When I wanted to go to the temple, that bishop asked me all the questions.
In all of my answers I told him that I did not know. I was not sure about any of it, but that I wanted to learn and felt the temple could help me in some way.
He told me that there was no better place for me to learn and gave me a recommend. With each small and unsure step I took toward Him, God blessed me with just enough of the spirit's reassurance to take me onto the next step.
I studied and prayed. A lot. And I learned and learned and the spirit gave me such strong witnesses of the truths that I was slowly relearning.
I learned the pattern that we are always taught in the church but are too skeptical to take literally; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. It took two years for me to gain the conviction I had lost and much much more.”
Transcript
Ashly Stone
00:00
So when you first shared your story with me, and I reposted it, people loved it. And they just, you know, I had so many people reach out to me and ask, you know, when is Alba going to share her story on the podcast? And so I feel so lucky to have you here sharing your story. And I'm just so excited. So if you want to just start from the beginning, that would be great.
Alba
00:23
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Okay, so as far as the beginning, I think I did a pretty good job, I guess, summarizing it in the actual post, it was, it was pretty simple. I mean, I grew up in the church, I did all the things, you know, that would be considered, like, all the perfect church things and hit, you know, like, all the typical church milestones, whatever. I went on a mission, I came back and went to BYU. And then a year after my mission, I was sealed in the temple. And then it was almost a year after that, that someone in my husband's family kind of came out to the family to say, like, Hey, I am leaving the church, like, openly. These are some of the reasons, you know, and I knew that he had been struggling a lot with his testimony before that. And so I kind of took that as an opportunity to be like, hey, you know, what's going on with you? And what's happening with the church? And, you know, where are we with that?
Ashly Stone
01:27
How did that feel for you at that time? I mean, I, like, you know, wondering where your husband's faith is at, and, you know, were you, did you feel like afraid or what, what did that feel like for you?
Alba
01:40
Yeah, it was really, really hard. I knew that he had, like, some issues before we got married. And so when we got married, I was like, really, really explicit. And like, what I wanted and how I felt about it, and I like, you know, just said, like, this is really important for me, and if you want to back out of this, because like, you realize that we don't value the same things. And this is not what you want for your life. Like, I'm okay with that. And no, I mean, the answer was always like, “No”, “this is what I want”. I'm gonna like, try really hard, I really want to, like build up more faith. And I really want to believe and I really want to work toward this blah, blah, blah, blah. And so in my mind, I was always like, well, you know, that's what matters, like, what matters is your effort. What matters is like, what your desire and your intention is, and then that's kind of where it's going. So this was the first time when I brought it up again, that his answer was like, honestly, I don't want anything to do with God, or the church or anything ever again. And like, I'm really sorry, you know, whatever. So, at that time, we kind of decided, like, well, we're just gonna each go our own way, and everything's fine. And it was like, you know, it was okay. But then it changed really quickly, obviously, there's a lot of emotions involved. It's like a really hard, difficult thing. And so really, when we started talking about it, he was like, you know, I really think that it's important, you know, you claim to be like an open minded person, and you claim to really like care about how I feel and what it is that's going on. And so I think that this whole time that we've talked about my doubts or stuff about the church, you've always looked at it from the lens that the church is true. And you've never actually been open to the idea that you might be wrong, and that it's not, and that it's all false, and that it's all, you know, whatever. And so I said, you know, you're right, I think that you're totally right about that. I think that it's true, even when I hear any piece of information, I still look at it from the lens of the church is true. And so, you know, well, that's weird, or, you know, I just like push it to the back of my mind. But you're right, I mean, there, I've never actually genuinely considered it from a different point of view. So I said, you know, why don't why don't we talk about that? Why don't you share with me like some of the things that you're thinking and feeling and, you know, I am, like, genuinely committed to being really open about it. So what that turned into was, he had years of pretty extensive research against the church and a lot of things that he had felt for a long time that I had no idea about. And so that all just came out. I kind of just took in a lot of that all at once. So, I am kind of a researcher in general, I really like to kind of dive deep into a lot of things and learn and research and so as soon as that can was open, I just like immediately took in all of it. So I spent days, hours, weeks -I didn't sleep, I didn't work, I didn't do anything I just research, because as soon as I started, I started realizing and learning all these things that I've never seen before I've never heard of. And obviously like this is a huge deal. You know, like the church is my entire identity, my whole life. Like everything in my whole life revolved around the church, around my family, everything about that. And so obviously now my marriage is like hanging by a thread because of this huge thing. And so anyway, it was a big deal. So I started to kind of dive into everything. And I just read and read and read and watch videos and listen to podcasts and forums and groups and all kinds of people that had left, and they were kind of sharing their experience. And there's a lot of like these, like just an open space for people to talk about their feelings kind of places, when really, there's a lot of messaging in that that's just like, very carefully leading people down a path of leaving the church and leaving God and whatever. So I kind of dove into all of that, and just a lot, there's a lot out there about it. And I mean, immediately, it was crushing and devastating to my testimony. Like, within the first couple of weeks of really diving into it, I just knew like, “yeah, this is crazy”. Everything about the church is awful. I hate everything about this, like, it just felt so dark and so awful. And the more I dove into things, the more you know, and I would go back and forth, like somebody would say, like, you know, here is some evidence against the church or against the Book of Mormon. And then it would say like here is, let's say, like the church apologists trying to talk about it. So I would go into all of the things that the church apologist said, and then people would say, here's our arguments back, and they would go into all the different details about that, and there's just so much. And yeah, it really didn't take a lot honestly, for considering, you know, I spent my whole life building a testimony, and it took very little for that to crumble. And for me to feel all the regular feelings that people feel around this, like betrayal and confusion and frustration, and I don't know, just feeling like really stupid, like, how could I be so naive? And how could I think that, you know, like, such a glaringly horrible thing is like, good. And by any means, like the right religion or anything like that, it was just so absurd. And then the more I dove into everything, the more things started to fall away about my testimony in general, I just thought, like, I don't believe in prophets at all, or an anybody that claims like some kind of, you know, voice from God, or whatever that means. And in that case, then why do I believe the scriptures like obviously, that's just written by a bunch of these same people that I don't believe in? And then it was just kind of, like, Why do I believe in religion at all, and the more I kind of dove into it, and the more I kept researching, and learning and thinking, and I just thought, you know, religion makes sense, from a totally different perspective, like, it's just a really nice thing that people made up so that, you know, maybe life isn't so sad when someone dies, or, you know, maybe people have like more of a sense of belonging, and community. And it's like a nice, cute thing that people made up so that life is a little bit easier to handle. And so I just kind of aside from that, like, well, that's cute and nice, you know, for people that are like naive enough to believe in that and, you know, whatever, I'm sure it's helpful for them, whatever. But I don't need religion to be a good person. And I don't need religion to tell me like, you know, what morals I should have, or whatever, like, I can have my own moral compass, and I don't need religion at all. And then that quickly turned into, you know, of all the things that I think I know about God, it was all written in these scriptures that I don't believe in by prophets that I don't believe in. So why do I even believe any of those things at all? And then it was so obvious like, I don't I don't believe that I don't believe in God. I don't believe in like, some strange floating man in the air that like watches over everyone. This is a weird thing that Why does anybody believe this? And, and that was it like, I mean, I just I went from A to B really quickly. And and I just decided, but obviously, there was all this stuff. I was learning about the history and about, you know, deeper issues and questions that people had in journals that so and so wrote in history, whatever. So I just kept diving and researching and researching even more after I already felt all of those things. I told my family, you know, I, I took off my garments, like, I didn't want anything. I mean, I was completely done. And then I had talked to my then husband about it. And I was like, you know, I obviously I can see everything that you see. And we would talk about it, and he would agree with me. And it was like, yeah, obviously, this is how we feel.
Ashly Stone
09:17
What did your parents think? Like, how did your family react to that? Obviously, you know, they have a really strong testimony. They came, you know, to America to be sealed in the temple. And, you know, what was their reaction?
Alba
09:32
You know, I think that along the way, there were small…there were like small tender mercies that I think Heavenly Father just knew so much more than I did. And one of them was my parents reaction because my parents are quite outspoken about a lot of things. You know, that's just kind of part of my culture and part of my family. And their reaction was so unlike them, I remember when I first talked to my mom and I told her, like, I don't believe in anything and leaving the church like I, I don't, I don't I don't believe in anything. And we kind of talked about it. And she just asked me like, “why?”. And she just like, looked at me so calmly and so lovingly, and she just said, like, you know, “this is really hard for me to understand. And it makes me really sad. And, and I think that you're wrong.” And that was it. And that's all she said. And she didn't ask me anything else about it. And even now, she doesn't actually remember that, she doesn't remember that conversation. She doesn't remember that I even told her that I was leaving the church, like, she doesn't remember anything about it. And it was the same with my dad, like I told him and he, I don't even remember what he said, I feel like that was something that just like, it almost like didn't even matter. Like I just said it in passing. And then I just like moved on with my life, because I was already done. And now looking back, I think like that was such a tender thing, because it would have been really hard for what came next, if I felt a lot of pressure from them. I was living with them at the time I had left my husband and I was living at home. And, and it would have just been different and much more difficult. I think if I had had pressure from other people, and it was really just between like me and my husband, and God. And there really weren't a lot of other people involved. And I also didn't really want to talk about it with anybody at the time. Like I didn't know how to handle it. And I didn't you know, so I like told close friends and I told my parents and yeah, anyway, it was it was interesting now looking back at how that happened, because they basically weren't involved. And so anyway, I remember what happened. So one of the questions that someone asked me was, like, you know, what were the very first things that kind of led you back. And, you know, through conversations and through everything, basically, that I had learned, one of the big things that that people talk about when you leave the church is that you can't rely on your feelings. Because you know, these things that you think that you feel you can really brainwash yourself into feeling anything and you can will yourself to believe anything, you know, and it can be a destructive, horrible thing that hurts other people. And it's still like, based on you feel something good. And so basically, I had been, you know, told through all these different sources that I needed to separate my emotions completely from the situation and just look at things logically. Because that's the only place where like, you could find real reason and information. Because obviously, you know, one of the big things that people teach in the church is like, follow the spirit and all this stuff about the spirit. And so everybody just discredits that completely by like this are made up feelings. Don't rely on that. And I was like, yeah, yeah, of course that makes total sense. “Yeah” and so that's what happened. I, you know, people ask this question of, you know, what are some of the very first things that happened. And I had already decided all these things, I already decided I didn't believe in God. But then I'm just, I'm kind of a planner. And I like to look ahead, and I like to kind of think about my life. And I do think a lot about like my future family. And at the time, I thought a lot even I still now think a lot about my children and you know, how I want to raise them and things I want to teach them and stuff like that. And I remember I have several what I now recognize as promptings all at the same time. One afternoon, I was at the house, I was at the house by myself. I already had my plane tickets for when I was going to go back to live with my husband. And we were going to, you know, ride off into the sunset together away from the church and away from God and away from everything. And I was just researching more, because I was still learning and there was a lot of things that were still interesting to me and like topics that I had kind of pushed aside that I was like, Okay, now I want to dive into this little tiny detail. And I want to dive into this, this this. And I was researching and I stopped and I had a couple of interesting promptings. So one of them was I was planning my life and what that would look like, and I started looking at all these different things like, Okay, well, you know, what's even going to change, like, it's not like, I'm suddenly going to be a horrible person, and just like, you know, be mean to everyone or like, sleep around with a bunch of people or, you know, get into drugs or whatever, like, I didn't, you know, that none of those things were gonna happen. I'm still married to someone and I, like still have, you know, morals and whatever. So if that wasn't about the church, like, what was actually going to change, what was the point of leaving? So I just thought about it. And I thought, you know, well, how am I gonna talk to my kids about that, like, well, you know, part of your family is in this church, we don't definitely don't believe in that. Like they believe in God, we don't and what kind of questions are they going to ask about that? And how am I going to address them? And I thought a lot about like, Okay, well, you know, we'll have significantly more time on the weekends, which is really nice. And I don't have like the guilt that comes with like being in the church that I need to do all this stuff all the time. Like I just can get rid of all that guilt and live you know, totally free to be whoever I want to be and I'll have 10% more money, which will be nice and, you know, just like going through the list like, oh, I can also shop wherever I want and wear whatever clothes I want. Like, that's gonna be best of all, like, so easy to be able to just wear whatever I want when it's hot or whatever. And it was so clear, like, immediately I had, like I said, What I now recognize as a prompting of like, what things in your life that mattered more and were worth it were easier. And so I thought about a lot of things. And I was like, you know, I've worked really hard to have a good marriage. And that is significantly harder than just fighting and being a brat to my husband all the time. And being a good parent is much more difficult than just letting my kids do whatever they want. And having no rules and not caring, and going to college, it's much more difficult than if I would have just done whatever I wanted and worked at whatever job and not cared about, you know, anything. And then I thought about, like, all these different things where I'm like, you know, having a good job is also really difficult and like having to perform and having to meet expectations and deadlines. And then you know, try to move up in my job and find a better job, like all of these things that matter in your life, and being a good person is much harder than just doing whatever I want and being a brat to whoever I want anytime, you know. And so I thought like, Oh, that's a really interesting question. There is literally nothing that matters. And that is worth it, or long term matters, that is easier than an alternative. And then I was like, that's kind of interesting. So then I just like push that away. I was like, you know, whatever. This is just my brainwashing from all my life, like, whatever. And then I was thinking about God in general. And I had a lot of questions about God, and the existence of God. And I just knew, like, I don't think that he exists. But there was all these things that were still there like cable, what about this? And what about, you know, I just had specific questions, and mostly around what what I explained to my children, when they asked me like, well, you know, so and so's neighbor’s Mom told me this about God, like, what do you think about that, and, you know, just like very realistic scenarios of how I would deal with that. And so let me just pictured in my mind, like a giant white piece of paper, sorry, a giant white piece of paper that represented like, all of the knowledge that I could gain in this life, you know, and I thought of like, who were people that I know, that are really wise, are very intelligent, are very successful, and they have tons of knowledge. You know, if I like combined all of that, and the amount of knowledge that I could gain in my whole life, and then I thought, Okay, I'm, what was I 2223 years old? And like, how much of that knowledge do I have now, like, a tiny, tiny speck? And, and then I just felt silly. And I thought, you know, I have just definitively decided something that people that have lived much longer with much more knowledge and wisdom than me, have been debating for the entire existence of humanity of like, the existence of God, and how could I possibly know with such certainty with like, the very limited amount of knowledge that I have, and especially considering the now I left the church, and I knew all this new stuff, I thought, you know, where's my knowledge now compared to a year ago, compared to five years ago, compared to 10 years ago, like,
18:16
you know, there's so much more for me to learn, and so much more for me to know. And it's really, really interesting that I think that I'm capable of making this decision with the amount of information that I have, which is nothing. And so I asked myself that question, like, you know, “how can I, how can I possibly decide that?”. So then, of course, I went back to falling back on well I can't rely on my emotions, because those are fake. So I just thought about it. Logically, I thought, this is kind of, you know, a dumb thing. But I thought humans make decisions based on risk and reward. Really, that's how we make all of our decisions. And like, you know, what, side of the sidewalk we walk on, or what car to buy, or what house to live in, like everything is just based on the amount of risk reward benefits, whatever. And so I thought, like, a little square in my mind, like a two by two of like, okay, let's say one side is, you know, I do believe in God, the other side is I don't, one side is it's true, or, you know, the top row is that it's true. And the bottom row is that it's not true. And so I started going through all the squares of like, okay, let's look at this, like a risk reward. You know, what does this look like, if I don't believe in God, and he's not real, then I die, and I'm a worm, and who cares? Like it doesn't matter. And okay, sure, you know, that's like, very low risk, whatever. If I do believe in God, and he's not real, then it's fine. You know, I die and I just become a worm in the ground and who cares, but I lived kind of like a cute little life and you know, like, maybe I wasn't so sad when someone died and I had like a cute little family and, and, you know, I have like something to guide me into, like, make me feel comforted and nice and light. I feel like there was inherent value in living that life anyway. So I was like, okay, sure, that could be nice. And then I thought, if God is real, and I don't believe, like, every single thing matters, everything that I do everything that I think everything that I say, and it's not just me, but it's everybody after me, like my children, my grandchildren, that I'm making a decision for them right now that I don't actually know. And there's no possible way that I could definitely know. So that carries the greatest risk. And then I thought, if he does exist, and I do believe, then that is all the reward, like everything that matters would pay off in the end. And it was literally impossible for me as a human being to know either way. So I looked at it, like I really tried to be logical. And I said, okay, if I'm genuinely taking away the emotion out of this, and I just did this from a logical perspective, it doesn't make any sense not to believe, because it's dumb. Like, if it's not real, then it doesn't matter. But if it is real, it's so important. And so I thought a lot about that. And I was like, Okay, well, I'm going to live my life as if I believe in God. And I think that that's, you know, I don't think I'll ever actually be capable of having a testimony. I don't think I'll actually ever be capable of deeply, truly believing that the way that I did before when I was naive and dumb and didn't know anything. But I'm going to live that way. Because it makes more sense. And it's more logical, and that's less risk. And then another thought that I had as I was like reading and researching more, it was probably a couple hours later, there was a part that I was going through evidences of the truths are evidences that the Book of Mormon was not true. And one of them that was really clear said that there was no DNA evidence that any ancestors from people in the Americas came from the Middle East. And as I read through that bullet point, I thought, when was this written, because I had read just a few months earlier, an article from National Geographic that came out that literally was called like, surprise, we didn't know that there's actually like a new, you know, I think it's like sequence genomes, something that shows DNA from the Middle East, and from East Asia and different parts. And there was like a whole article that I had learned about that. And as soon as I read that, I thought, like, if I keep they're wrong, like this one bullet point here, and this list of hundreds of things that's wrong with the Book of Mormon, but this one I know is wrong, because of new evidence that just came out like a couple of years ago. And so I thought, you know, it's the same with the square that I thought, like, of all the knowledge that I have, how much knowledge do we have as humanity that thinks that we just don't know yet? And that we're making all these decisions and assumptions that might be wrong? So really, that was like a huge thing for me to think like, Okay, if this one thing is wrong, I am making this giant life choice. Like, what else could I be wrong about? Or what else are all these people that are attacking the church? Like, is there anything else that maybe they got wrong? And so I tried to like look online and read and research, the more I would go into, like church apologists, it was just worse. I was like, Oh, I hate all of these people. This makes it so much worse. And so I wanted to talk to a person I wanted to talk to somebody in real life, and I process things out loud. And I like to talk through things and ask questions. And so I thought, you know, I really want to talk to somebody that would know, yeah, so I decided I wanted to talk to a real person, I wanted someone that could ask questions that I felt like me face some of these questions before, because of course, this is another silly thing that I mean, it might make some people mad to hear it. But something that I think is kind of silly, is that a lot of the people that I've encountered that have left the church, they feel like their thoughts are very original, like nobody's ever asked those questions before. Because clearly if they had, and if they had read the same themes, then they would have left too. And so in my mind, that's exactly how I felt. So I couldn't tell people anything. And I couldn't talk to somebody that hadn't already thought those things because clearly they hadn't. And of course, if I told them all of that, it would ruin their whole testimony. And they would leave the church and I was like, I don't know, if I'm ready to just like, destroy everybody's faith right now. Like, I definitely want to do it eventually. Because it's kind of a cult, and I want them to get out of it. But but not yet. And so in my mind, I was like, I need to talk to somebody that I'm pretty sure has already dealt with some of these questions, or at least read and knows some of the material that I that I'm referencing. So I decided to go talk to this brother, he has a pretty high position in the church, and you know, he's old and has all the wisdom and all the things that I was looking for. And I thought, you know, if he really doesn't know and has nothing good to say, or just sends me to some stupid apologist once I'm done with this, I'm not even going to look at more. But maybe he has something interesting in me he can at least you know, answer one or to other points, there was no way that he could actually sway what I thought or answer anything. But I did want to know what he had to say. And so I went and talked to him. And, you know, I kind of busted into his office one day. And I, you know, I just told them like, I am, I have already decided to leave the church, and I have questions about specific things. And I like to know what you have to say about this, you know, almost like, you know, what, what could you possibly say to me, and he was just so kind and patient and loving. And he spent a lot of time with me. And he shared a lot of experiences with me, he shared experiences of his own family, he shared experiences of other friends and close relatives that he had known that had left the church, some that had come back, and some that hadn't, and what their experiences were like, and why and what their conversations had been like when he spoke to them. And, and then he said, You know, there's a lot of good questions that you're asking. And there's people that have researched this a lot more than you have. And that took me back to that little sting that I thought before of when I knew that I was like, so young and dumb. I felt stupid that he said that to me. And I was like, I mean, yes, I'm sure that there's people that know a lot more about this than me. And he said, and they've, they've written books that I think are, are interesting, that might be helpful to you. And so he said, The Joseph Smith papers were just published recently. And you know, that might be something that you can look into, this is a good book that just came out. And this is one that I like, and you know, the one that I would recommend the most is the crucible of doubt by Terrell and Fiona Givens. And, and then at the end, when I was leaving, he, he looked at me and he said, you know, Alba I think that part of the reason that you came to my office is because there's a part of you that knows that you can leave all you want, but you can never let that go. Like there are things that you even now, like right now, when you feel so strongly about all of these things, and you can't let it go. Like, you still need to know what is going on. And he said that won't go away. Like it doesn't matter how long you're away from the church, it doesn't matter how many things you think that you know, and that you'll learn like that tiny thing won't go away, because the spirit has testified to you and that will be in you. And then he said, You know, when I've talked to other people that have decided to leave, I reference this scripture all the time, because I think it's this very important question that you should ask yourself. And he said, when Christ asked the Apostles, if they were going to leave, then they just said, “where will we go?” And he just looked at me and he said, “where are you going to go?” And he looked at me and said, “where do you think you’re gonna go? I expect an actual answer. Where do you think you're gonna go?“ And I, obviously, I had nothing to say to him. And so I, you know, and at the time, I was pretty prideful. And I was like, “well, I'm not gonna explain myself to you, you know, you don't understand.”.
27:59
I mean, it was such a good question, like, where else could I go? And he said, You know, when you go to another religion or somewhere else, you're going to realize that there's a lot of gaps of knowledge that the church has that other people don't have, which is why it's such a beauty that it's been restored, and we have all of these truths. And he said, “so I think it'll be hard for you to go to another religion. And even then, if you just have no religion, and you just try to have a relationship with God, like people think that they can do he's like, ask yourself that question, like, where are you? And where are you going?”. And then I just left and I. And I went and bought the books that he told me because I felt the spirit when he talked to me. And I didn't recognize that that's what it was at the time, of course. But I was like, Yeah, I want to know that book that he talked about, what is that? What is the Crucible of Doubt? That's interesting. What is that? What is that about? And I. So I went and bought these books. And I read the crucible of doubt all in one day. And it was so powerful, I felt so many powerful answers. And the whole premise of the book is basically just saying that a lot of the initial assumptions with which we operate, and like live our lives in the world might be wrong. So then other things don't make sense. Because you know, the initial thing that you think is wrong, for example, like a really common one is that, you know, prophets are infallible, they're perfect men. So when they do things that are not perfect, it doesn't fit into that worldview. And it doesn't make sense with your beliefs, and those things clash. Really your initial assumption that they're perfect, or that they're infallible, is wrong. So of course, everything that you build off of that is not going to fit. And that's what the book talks about. It talks about a lot of different ways that we do that in different examples. And it's beautiful. Reading that book kind of started me on a completely different path where I felt the spirit and I thought, I do think that maybe God is real. And if I want to know that, you know, Mormons say that I should pray. So hoped maybe I should pray and, and I prayed out loud and I received answers and I received the Spirit. And I wanted more of that. And I wanted to learn. I said, like, Okay, well, God is real. And that was something that I was pretty sure about, which obviously, I feel now that I was wrong. So what about what the brother said, “where else would I go?”. I mean, what else could I have been wrong about? So then I just started learning. And it was really, really slow. Because I still had interactions with my then husband. And every time that I would talk to him. I mean, it would take five minutes of him being like, Yeah, but you know, that it's ridiculous. For me to just completely break down anything that I had built up, I could have been working on my, you know, testimony, I guess, for days and trying to feel the spirit and trying to seek answers and five minutes of him just telling me like, Yeah, but what about this, this, this and these questions, and this doesn't make sense for me to be like, you're right. Oh, my gosh, I'm a crazy person. And everybody in this church is a crazy person, and I just need to get out of here. And then it was all destroyed immediately. And I'd have to start over and be like, Okay, well, but we I actually, what about this that I felt last week? And what about this that I thought and I don't know. And then I started asking more questions. And, and so anyway, started really slowly, I decided, okay, I felt like God was real. And then I thought, Okay, well, you know, if I'm gonna live this way, and I thought about what that brother told me about worlds would I go, so I thought, you know, maybe I'm gonna live in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I don't think that I'll ever think that it's real or that it's true. But I'm going to live my life this way, because it's the least amount of risk. And so I'm going to, I'm going to move forward with that. And I decided to start attending church. And then I had this wonderful Bishop that I spoke to, and I told him that I wanted to get divorced. And I wanted to cancel my ceiling and not have anything to do with that. And that was after I had been there for a little while. But I started going to church, and he asked me if I wanted to have a calling. And I told him that I wasn't ready for that. And he said, you know, what, we really needed someone to teach primary and to teach four year olds. And I thought, you know, I mean, what's the harm in that? How terrible could that be, you know, I don't have anybody trying to give me their opinion, or trying to tell me what to do, or trying to teach me anything about the church, and I can just not teach the kids secretly, I'm not going to teach them anything about doctrine, I'm just going to teach them about like love and family and being nice to each other. And that's fine, you know, I'll just do that instead. And so I took on that calling, and I have a couple of autistic kids in that class that, you know, I have really special experiences with and it was just like, such a, such a perfect thing for me, and my, like, fragile little testimony that was slowly growing. And so I had some good spiritual experiences with the kids. And over time, you know, a few months later, I decided that I wanted to learn about Christ. And if I was going to be in the church, and people believed in Christ, then maybe I should learn about him. And so I thought, you know, I'm gonna, I don't believe in other things that the Prophet say, or other weird things in the scriptures, I can, I can probably get behind some of the things that Christ did or taught, you know, seems like he was kind of a nice guy. And so I just started to like, read and learn about him and, and then open up and I started studying a lot. And I started learning a lot and asking more questions. And I, I purposely sought out people that I knew had wrestled with difficult questions, and had stayed, because I had talked to a lot of people that had wrestled with questions and left. But I wanted to know, like, Are there more people that have decided to stay? And why? And what what, like, how could they possibly get over these hard things? Which was interesting, when you said when you put the post up on Facebook, because those are some of the questions that people asked like, basically, they were saying that, like, how could you stay? What about this? And what about this question and these things? Like, how could you get over that? And that was exactly how I felt and I needed to find someone like, there has to be more people. I mean, I'm really not that special. There have to be other people that feel this. And they're going through this, like what happened. And I did and I sought out really important, you know, people that became mentors for me to ask them questions like, Okay, well, you wrestled with this, you know, what was the time when you decided to leave the church and what happened? And they were telling you their story? And I said, Okay, well, why why did you stay what happened? And people had different experiences of key moments where the Spirit taught them and they knew, and that was powerful for me. And so I would hold on to those things, and I would keep learning and progressing and, and that's kind of how it happened.
Ashly Stone
34:23
Wow, that is so incredible. Wow, I'm just amazed. You're amazing. Just the way that you looked at both sides. And just, I am amazed. Like, I'm amazed. Okay, so I have a bunch of questions from people that are following the Instagram. And I mean, I have my own questions too. I'm sure. So do you have any It doubts or concerns or things that still bother you today?
Alba
35:05
Such a good question. So when I said in the post that it took two years is because there were certain parts of my testimony that I decided to build at a time, I knew that if I took too many steps forward, it was too overwhelming for me. And I would just immediately be flooded with like doubts and questions and darkness. And I just felt like, like what I tried to describe in the post of like, feeling discussed and like, darkness was very real for me. And so if I took too many steps too fast, I would dive right back into that. And so I just needed to kind of do it a little bit at a time. And so I decided to focus on like one thing at a time in my testimony, like first Heavenly Father, Is he real? And then Jesus Christ? Is he? Was he a real person? And then like, was he a savior? What does that mean to be a Savior? And then actually, one of the first things that I felt was if Joseph Smith was a prophet, and I wanted to learn more about that, and I, that was one of the things that first came back, you know, through spiritual revelation, and through seeking and learning more. And then I wanted to know, of course about things in his life, like, did he actually restore the priesthood? What is the what is the priesthood even need? And that was the point where I decided with my bishop that I wanted to go to the temple. I didn't really know how to approach anything about the priesthood, but I thought, you know, what I want to know, really, about the priesthood? Is our ordinances real? Does that matter? What is that? And so I decided to start with the most basic one of baptism. And so I thought, you know, maybe I could go to the temple and do baptisms, and maybe I'll learn something, or maybe I'll know for sure whether or not you know, a baptism is a real thing. And so that's when I approached my bishop, again, the same one, about getting a recommend, which was a really important moment, too, because in all of the recommend questions, you know, they asked you about your testimony, they asked you what you believe, and I couldn't answer any of them affirmatively, I told him that I didn't know and that some of them I really didn't think that they were true, but I wasn't sure. And so he asked me why, why if I believed, if I didn't believe those things, why was I going to the temple? And I told them that I felt like that was a place that I could learn. And that, you know, that's kind of what Mormons did. So maybe if I went, I could know, and he told me that that was okay. It was okay, that I didn't know. And it was okay, that that's how I felt because that was a good place for me to learn. And I went to do baptisms. And that was one of the important points where I learned a lot about the priesthood. And I learned a lot about baptisms and saving ordinances, and that those were real, that, you know, there were actual real people that were waiting. There were actual real people that were learning the gospel and it was powerful for me. And so it went like that there was just small little things. And it took me two years, the last thing that I felt like, I mean, I wanted to know if the Book of Mormon was true, I want to know all the key points of you know, what someone would consider a testimony. And one of the last things that happened two years later was when we sustained President Nelson as the Prophet in general conference, and that was a time where I received like a very clear answer that he was actually a prophet, and that that was real. And that was what I had considered at the time, like the last piece that was kind of missing for me from all of like, the big things, but there was still a lot of small things that were hard. Reading Doctrine and Covenants, I couldn't even touch it at all, because so many things about the pioneers and the story and the way it was written and all these things that were really problematic and hard for me. So yeah, there were a lot of things that I just didn't touch. And I just pretended that didn't exist in the church. And I would just kind of work on other things slowly. And then I would face some of the bigger things a little bit at a time. So today, the way that I answer that question is usually through a talk that I really love that is called “Stand forever” by Lawrence Corbridge.
Ashly Stone
39:03
I just posted about that on my Instagram account. I think it was last week. Oh, I listened to that talk probably 60 times.
Alba
39:11
Me, too. It's so good. So that's one of the ways that I answer people when they asked me that question, because it's so clear and so good, the way that he answers it, but there are primary questions and their secondary questions. So the answer is that I slowly and with a lot, a lot of time and effort, I answered primary questions first. And then a lot of the secondary questions were exactly like he described, some I received answers to. Others fell away and didn't matter at all anymore. And others are still kind of floating and I don't know. But what I did learn was a pattern. I learned a pattern over time. I learned that if I was willing to put in the effort of searching and praying and studying that I would receive answers. So a lot of things that I still don't have answers about I don't think that it's because there are no answers. I just don't think I've put in the effort or time to actually find them. And I'm okay with that I decided to dedicate, you know, to choose what I want to spend my time on.
Ashly Stone
40:13
It's so interesting, I just have to tell you that I had this experience with, I was reading the saints book, and I was reading about Joseph Smith and polygamy and it just creeped me out. And I was so creeped out. And I was like, I just don't understand, like, there was this this something about, you know, Emma didn't know, or, I don't know exactly what it was, but I just thought how, like, I can't really wrap my brain around why this is why, like, how and what and how and why. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and I was, you know, a couple years back to the church, maybe like, you know, three or four years back, and my little sister just got home from her mission. And she said, she was like, well, you need to pray about it and ask God, how he can help you, bring this full circle. And, and so I did, and I, you know, had thought I was praying about it and thinking about it for a few days. And, and I asked my dad who's been just a huge, you know, anchor in my testimony and his experiences. And he's like, there was all this commotion going on my mom, I was at my mom's house where the dog was barking and you know, my mom was huffing and puffing about the kitchen being a mess, and all kinds of stuff, like just all this commotion going on. And my dad looked at me and he said, Ashley, Satan does not want me to tell you what I'm about to tell you. And that's why all this is going on right now. And I was like, you know, and that got my attention. And yeah, and he basically said, Ashley, if it wasn't for polygamous, you wouldn't be here today. Your ancestors come from polygamy. And he brought me a journal from my great, great, great grandma. And she shared her experience of when she when they took back the polygamy. She's like they said it was the crowning the crowning jewel of, you know, the strong testimony this was and she said, how could they do that. And then she said, she went into her tent, and she was so upset about it. And then all of a sudden, she was overcome by the Spirit. And she knew that it was right, what was happening. And reading that from my own grandmother was, you know, great, great, great grandmother was so powerful for me. And it was crazy, because I saw the entire Joseph Smith thing with new eyes. Like the whole situation, I thought, I don't know the context. Maybe he didn't want Emma to have her feelings hurt. Or maybe we don't know the context. And we can't say like, for my 2022 vision, I'm like, yeah, that is creepy. But we just don't know the context. And so when you're talking about these things that you have questions with, and, you know, t's interesting, how if you turn to God and ask Him for answers that he will give them to you. And it's not that he just like gives you the straight up answer, but he brings peace surrounding the subject. And we may never know what exactly was going on in Joseph’s mind with his, you know, with all of that, but I do know how I feel about it now and that I can be okay with the fact that I don't know all the context. So anyway, sorry to hijack the podcast.
Alba
43:50
That's been such a huge thing for me is to learn like one you just don't know things. Like there's so many things you don't know. When things don't make sense, and things are hard for me, I always think about that talk, like I go back to the primary questions every single time. And I've talked to lots of people over the years now about this experience. People that have come to me, you know, that have had faith crises, or people whose family members have their faith crises, and people have very specific questions. And I always turn them to the same resources, which they probably you know, don't love. I’m like, what it says there is real like, what what other corporate said is totally real. And there are ways that you can learn if you're willing to put in the work. But honestly, like, if you're not answering the primary questions first, then it doesn't matter. And a lot of times when people ask me like, well, I can't come back to the church because of all these things. And I just usually ask them like, Have you prayed? Like, have you read the Book of Mormon? Like, when was the last time that you genuinely prayed out loud for you know, more than five seconds and actually put an effort to like ask Heavenly Father and receive an answer from him? Usually, it's been a long time and I I think that one of the main things that I learned about this whole situation was that our agency is so much more powerful than people could possibly understand than any of us could possibly understand. Because when I look back at my experience, I didn't have grand visions, I didn't like explain away all of these things that don't make sense. I didn't just like, you know, suddenly have a vision of what happened in history and understand everything that happened in Joseph Smith's life, like none of those things happened. But what happened was that I chose, when I pray, and I felt peaceful, I chose to attribute that peace to God, instead of just thinking like, oh, I have a, you know, a slow heart rate, because I'm in this quiet room by myself, like, you know what I mean? Like, you can attribute it to anything. And really, that's how all of these things happen. Like, when I read the Crucible of Doubt, and I felt peace, I could have attributed that to anything I could have said, like, well, this is clearly my brainwashing at work. I'm like, all my life and being brainwashed. Or I could have attributed it to the spirit and feeling like maybe I was learning something from, from something bigger than myself. And all of those are choices. And that was really hard for me to accept, because I ended up getting divorced and leaving, and, and it was really hard, because he would tell me, you know, like, this isn't something I can just choose, I can't just choose to believe something like, why don't you just choose to believe some other religion like you can't, you can't just choose that. But you actually can, like, all of those things are your own choice, and it's within your control. You're not like a victim of the doubt. You know, like, it doesn't happen like that. And it was really hard for me to learn that and accept that over time. Like, no, it's a choice, it's a conscious choice that you have to build your faith. And it's not like I have a testimony or I don't. It's in the tiny, tiny, tiny moments. And you choose to attribute those things to God over and over and over and over. And then your faith builds. And then you receive light and knowledge and all the things exactly how the scriptures describe it. And, you know, I look at really clear examples like Alma 32, or like, Elder Holland's talk, you know, “Lord, I Believe”, where he talks about that, and like the patterns of how your faith builds, and how you learn and grow and your testimony. And those are literal things. That's exactly how it is like you have to choose, and you have to be willing first, and then you have to work at it. And it's really hard. I just think that agency is so much more powerful than that we really understand.
Ashly Stone
47:33
Yeah, I love that so much. Um, another question that I've got from multiple people is, how can we support a spouse, specifically a spouse, but or family member? Do we back off? Do we pretend like, you know, it's not happening, that they're leaving? Do we, you know, how do we best approach it? And, you know, coming from coming from your perspective. What is the best thing to do as a family member?
Alba
48:10
Um, that's probably also won't be a clear cut answer, because it's just not I think that so much of that is just seeking the spirit. I did all of the above. I just ignored it. I pretended like it didn't matter. I tried to talk about it with leaders or with other people and tried to get advice. Sometimes their advice was leave it alone and ignore it, and don't worry about it other times, and vice was push him on it and interrogate him and try to get him to see your way. And other people's advice was, make him pray with you and make him study the Scriptures with you and all of these things. And ultimately, it wasn't about any of that. And I didn't follow the spirit or even seek the spirit and any of that. But I think it's just gonna depend on where people are in their own journey. I realized that like leaving and coming back are both kind of their own individual journey. It really depends on where people are and what they want. Ultimately, it's about someone's desire and about someone's agency. So if you seek the spirit, genuinely and sincerely ask God, not what you think that you should be saying, or how you should be dealing with it, but really, as can we father what that person needs and how you can love them and help them. I think that it'll be more clear of whether or not you should ask questions, and not say anything, and maybe just listen, or whether you should just share a very simple testimony of why things matter and why it's important to you like that brother did with me. Or, you know, maybe you should share a resource or a book where it's not from you and it's from a third party, you it's like, you know, a little bit less threatening, but it's someone else or you know, I mean, there's lots of different things that could be helpful and it really kind of depends. Ultimately, every person has to choose, and every person has to choose. I mean, it's the same with your, you know, addiction recovery. It's exactly the same thing. The same people can help you in all kinds of ways. But really everything is about your personal choice and your agency. And so if you want to have a testimony and if you want to believe and if you want to work through your doubts, then Heavenly Father is right there willing and waiting and family members are probably willing and waiting to help you. But if it's something that that person doesn't choose, there's really nothing that someone could say that's just going to sway them.
Ashly Stone
50:40
So my question for you is, this is for me, not followers. But do you feel? How do you feel? Now looking back on your, you know, crisis of faith? Do you feel like you're grateful that you went through that? Because, you know, do you feel like you were able to develop a deeper testimony because of it? Or do you feel like, it was a dark time?
Alba
51:08
yeah, just move past it. Yeah. No, not at all. I feel like it was a blessing in every way. So why don't I think I learned a lot about myself and like, what I'm capable of. There's been a lot of times since then, where I've had to choose God. And I draw on that experience all the time. And it helps me to know like, I'm capable of that. And, and it's important that I do that. And it's important that I choose him. And it's important that I choose the gospel over other things. And that obviously has brought, you know, a lot of blessings. So I learned a lot about myself. One thing that was really powerful too, was that, up until that point, I think that I have lived a fairly easy life. I think that it was really powerful for me to go through a divorce and go through losing my testimony that way, because when I talked about it after that, and I shared my experiences, you know, pretty openly, I tried to share them with other people. I felt like that was healing and good for me. And so I tried to be pretty open when people asked me about it. But it created connections with people in a way that I had never experienced in my life. I had never realized that by telling people, you know, like, my marriage is a disaster, and my life is a disaster. And I'm starting over in every way, and I don't know anything, and I'm really worried. And I'm you know, and my life is really messy. It gave people like a freedom and a permission to share about their own lives, you know, people that have lost children and people that have left spouses, people that had just hard, messy things that had happened to them, or that they had gone through. It allowed me to connect with people in a way that I had never experienced before. And it was such a blessing to really feel like I could be a part of other people's lives in a different way. And that this like, hard thing that I had gone through if I allowed it to, like Heavenly Father would use me to answer other people's questions or to bless other people in their lives, or even to just give them like a moment of comfort. Like, it's okay that your life is messy and mine is too, and that's okay. So that was really powerful. And as far as my testimony, yeah, I mean, it was 100 times deeper and better and more real, and something that I fought for, and that I valued a lot more. And I think that it also just helped me to have a lot more empathy. Because I saw the world differently. You know, I have a lot more empathy just for the choices that people make, and hard things that people have to choose and go through and, and a lot more understanding of how people see the world differently, and how people saw faith and my religion and everything differently. And so yeah, I think, especially with my testimony was so much deeper. And it allowed me also to let go of a lot of the black and white thinking that I had always had before, like, it allowed me it just opened the door to all of this gray area that I had never lived in before. And so even now, there's things about the church or about the gospel that I either don't understand, or I don't agree with or I don't see, you know, in the same way, and it just like allows for all of that I understand all of this gray area that I'm just okay with and, and it's been like, a lot of peace that has come with that. And being more open to receiving answers from God.
Ashly Stone
54:44
That's so beautiful. Um, okay, next question. How can we treat people better who leave with that, you know, I your experiences, you know, your family was very kind and, you know, respectful. Do you have any advice or, you know, thoughts on that I, for me, I kind of feel like when people close to me leave it I feel sad. I feel shocked. I feel hurt. You know, it hurts and, and I think it's because it's something I love so much and I'm sad that you know, and it almost feels like I don't know what to you know, I don't know what to do or say like what are your thoughts on that?
Alba
55:40
Yeah, I feel really sad to honestly even like hearing about strangers. Like how They're people when they leave, because I just, it just is like, so painful to me to see, like I had all those same questions. And that's one of the things that I refer to back before where I said, like, people think that their thought is so original. And they think that nobody else has asked these questions. And because if they had, and if they just, if they only knew this thing, if they had only read this and this, then they would know and they would leave. And it's just really interesting, because it's not like that at all. One of the things that was helpful to me was to read the story of Korihor in the Book of Mormon. And at the time, I didn't believe in anything, and I was like, ‘You think that I'm going to read the Book of Mormon, like, please?” And but then later, months later, I decided to read that or I came across it. And I was like, Oh, I remember someone talked to me about this. And the questions that he asked, some of them are, like, literally word for word stuff that I read online that people had asked that people wrestled with that people like, felt so strongly, and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, like, everyone thinks, like, if only somebody would realize this one question, they would leave like they would get it. So one thing that I would say is, it's really hard for me to see that because I just think like, if you would just wait, if you would just wait and hold on like a little bit longer, if you would just seek for a little bit longer, like you will find the answers that you're looking for. And things will make sense. And it will feel peaceful and you won't have this like horrible internal, you know, wrestle or, or disgust or whatever it is that we're anger, betrayal, all these like hard emotions that people process. But, I mean, again, really, it's just about people's agency, like, I think that it's really important to treat people kindly. I think that more as more time passes, I have felt that it's more important to stand up for what you know is right. And voice that, I think that a lot of people are afraid. And they feel like a lot of worry around standing up for that, because maybe it feels like rejection of another person. Or maybe it feels like too harsh or like to preachy, or, you know, whatever, which can be I mean, you can convey it that way. But I think that it's more and more important, the closer we are to the second coming, and the more, you know, like confusing everything is in the world for people to stand up for what they have known to be true. So one thing I would say is, like, be bold, and, and like you can be kind and be bold, you don't need to like, you know, be mean or be in people's face about it. But I would say like bold in your beliefs. You know, somebody has questions or doubts or leaves or whatever, like, ask questions. And listen, also, there might be things that you don't want to know. And there might be things that you don't know, and it's okay. But I would say like, genuinely ask questions and genuinely know where people are coming from. Because sometimes people just need to not be discredited because those thoughts are real. And they're real questions, and a lot of people have them. And, you know, now looking back, I'm like, yeah, it's kind of basically like the same 20 questions that everybody has. And it's like, you know, not that different. But, but in the moment, it felt like, you know, these are huge, huge, huge things that I feel and that I'm asking, and they're real, and they're like, genuine concerns. And so sometimes people just want to feel like that's valid. And ask questions, listen, with the intent to learn not listening with the intent to respond. And be bold in sharing what you feel and why you feel it and be loving. And I think that really, that's all that anybody can be and you know what the Spirit is ultimately, what is ever going to change someone's heart.
Ashly Stone
59:28
So amazing. Do you have any final thoughts? Do you have any final thoughts for anybody that might be, you know, teetering, what are your final thoughts? And what would you say to somebody that might be like on the edge?
Alba
59:55
So hard. I would say to focus on the primary questions, you know, is Heavenly Father real and those who love you? Is the first thing that people need to know. And who is Jesus Christ? And is he your Savior? And then honestly, I would probably jump right to the Book of Mormon, because a lot of other things are answered through the Book of Mormon, like, actually read it and study it. Don't read what people say about it, or what you think, you know, like actually genuinely study and read what it says in the Book of Mormon. I think that like praying and being able to look for those things for yourself and I think that I would say like, everything that the scriptures say about what Heavenly Father is willing to give you, and the answers that he's willing to share with you, and that the Spirit can teach you things is so literal and so real. And if you exercise, even like the tiniest bit of faith and take small steps towards that, he is waiting for you, and He wants that, and he wants to share, you know, all that he has with you. And it's hard, it's hard for us to believe that that's real. And it's hard for us to believe that that's literal, but it really is. And I would say like to seek answers in different places. One of the things that I like about the Crucible of Doubt is that they talk about how people have like different spiritual fountains, people feel the spirit in different ways. I feel the spirit a lot in nature, and like going on a hike or standing on top of a mountain makes me wonder a lot of things and it makes me feel more connected to God and think, “this is his creation, and I matter and he loves me”. There's a lot of things that I feel spiritually being in nature. And for other people, it might be doing family history work. For other people, it might be listening to a podcast like this. And for other people, it might be studying the Book of Mormon, fine, if that helps feel the spirit and do that more, like seek opportunities to feel the spirit and it goes back to agency and to choice like, choose to believe, choose to hold on to whatever small amount of something you already know, and then build off of that. Choose to ask questions of people that you know, will help to strengthen your faith. And it was hard for me to ask questions of people that I knew had never asked those kinds of, they've never wrestled with those doubts, because I just feel like they didn't get it. And it it seemed like a like it wasn't a valid experience, or like their testimony wasn't as valid because they hadn't wrestled with the doubts. And now I don't I don't see it that way anymore. But at the time, that's how I felt. And so I purposely sought people that I knew had struggled, people that I knew, had wrestled. With people that I knew had left the church and came back or had asked really hard questions, because listening to them, like gave me hope. And it helped me to learn and understand things better. So I would just say, like, choose and take steps toward the spirit and the answers will come. And if they don't come then do it more for longer, and they will come.
Ashly Stone
1:05:42
I love that. Okay, well, thank you so much for being on. I feel like I could just continue to ask questions. But I know we're like overtime. But I You're just so amazing. And I am so thankful that you took the time to do this with me. So thank you so much.
Alba
1:03:30
No, thank you. I just want to say one last thing, please do one thing that I was just thinking about it. Now, when I said like that you should be bold. And I thought, you know, like I should maybe share more of what I felt and like my testimony about things in a different way. But I was thinking about what I said about being bold. And, you know, something that was really hard for me is that I walked away before I knew that it was real, because I wanted the opportunity to work toward it. And I knew that if I was surrounded by what I had before that I would leave and that I wasn't strong enough to hold on to that by myself, or in that I needed to be by myself. And so I walked away. And that's fine a choice that everybody needs to make. And you know, obviously that's really personal, but I remember thinking a lot about my kids. And I remember when I was sharing my testimony with somebody of what happened later, I said, you know, like I I chose that. And I walked away and I chose to stay, you know, because of some floating man in the air that like watches over everybody that I had never seen. And, you know, I chose to stay for children that I didn't have and that I never met. But I feel like that's exactly what faith is, is just like moving forward when you don't know. And when things are dark and cloudy and you're not sure. I think that Heavenly Father loves us so much. And there's a lot that we won't understand and just like you said there are things that we just need to let go of that we will understand. But I guess what I wanted to say is to just you know, tell people like you, you can choose that even if you don't know and even if nothing makes sense. You can still choose it and you can still move forward with that. Answers will come and heavenly Father will share them with you.
Ashly Stone
1:05:44
Amazing thank you so much you are just amazing so thank you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
