"We did this guided imagery meditation on The Savior my second day on the ranch - and man - I still get the chills and emotional whenever I talk about it. Because as much as I wanted to be mad at God and hold on to that resentment, I just started sobbing, and for me to cry - it's hard for me to get to an emotional place. But when she started that amazing imagery of The Savior, and taking my wounded heart and replacing it with His heart, that is just full of love and light - I was sobbing. And during that, I had this overwhelming feeling and what I heard with my heart was the message that 'I am still here and I have always been here, and if you meet me halfway in this thing - I got you.'"
Bryan shares his story of coming back after addiction, doubts, tough questions, and suicidal thoughts.
One of my favorite episodes! <3
Transcript
Bryan
Thu, Dec 29, 2022 10:19AM • 47:57
Ashly Stone
00:00
All right, Bryan, I am so excited to have you on the podcast. We kind of know each other because you know my husband and then also, you work with Renaissance Ranch, and Preston and Tyson are a big— I don't think I actually would have had the guts to start this podcast if they didn't pretty much make me do it. They were texting me at about 9pm, “K, Ashley, do you have this set up?” Like, “We're doing this. This is happening.” And so anyway, they were a huge kick in the butt to do this and I’m so super grateful for them. But anyways, I would love to hear a little bit about you.
Bryan
00:45
Well, I'm Bryan, I'm an alcoholic. I'm an addict in recovery. But also, I'm a dad, and a husband. We live in Kaysville. My wife Rebecca and I have three kids, who are 10, 8 and 4: Porter, Logan and Ryan, two boys and a little girl. Like you said, I work at Renaissance Ranch. I've been there for gosh, the better part of 12 years.
Ashly Stone
Wow.
Bryan
Yeah, it's been a minute. I've kind of worked every job you can have there. I started as a line staff and was cooking and running a therapeutic community, and I've got into admissions and operations, and now I'm the Executive Director, which means I just find people for those positions that are way better than me. I don't and get to do their job. So I love that, I love what I do. It feels like a fake job, because I just can't believe that I get paid to do it.
We have a busy home. Right now it's like the witching hour, so I’m huddled in the guest room, I’m trying to be quiet. But yeah, our house is busy. We were playing soccer, and just got home from a flag football game, and you know, ballet and soccer for her. And my wife's a really hard worker. She owns her own flower business. So, she does weddings. She's kind of getting out of that, but she just did a huge wedding, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And so, our house is always crazy and noisy and fun.
Ashly Stone
02:57
Love it. Well, why don't we just go ahead and jump right into your story? I'd love to hear how it started, and how it's going, and all that.
Bryan
03:10
Well, I grew up mostly in Sandy and Farmington, UT. I have four siblings, we definitely grew up in an LDS household, which wasn't a negative thing for me. I mean, I remember growing up in the church. I have three brothers and a little sister, and we were just always playing sports, and doing the scouts thing and going to deer camp. And then beyond my family, my parents had siblings, aunts and uncles that were close, close enough, who are always huge influences on me as well. I grew up with a lot of mentors and people giving me good advice constantly, and teaching me the ways, and I didn't have a problem going to church. I mean, sometimes it was mundane and boring, but even as a teenager, I benefited from it. There's a time when we went on Pioneer Trek, I think I was 14 or 15, back when they used to make you kill a chicken and cook it.
Ashly Stone
04:35
Whoa, I thought mine was rough. But dang.
Bryan
04:39
Yeah, it was no joke, but we got the job done somehow. We did a solo. It's kind of the first memory that I have as an adolescent that had some real substantial, spirit attached to it, at least from what I can remember. We did an hour long solo, where we prayed, and what I call meditated now, which I didn't know what that was back then, but I kind of got quiet and did some writing just off on my own. I remember feeling an obvious peace in that moment. And that’s never left me. I mean, even when I got off track and, and things got super dark, I could never ignore that moment. I tried to talk myself out of it a lot, like, “No, that didn't really happen.” It wasn't like you remember it, but it was real. And that kind of stayed with me through junior high and high school.
I started experimenting with substances, alcohol, marijuana. I was kind of a poly substance user, so I would take anything. I mean, I would try anything. I was always pretty creative. I liked to get altered aggressively, I guess you could say. I liked to just go to a different planet, and try to get there as quickly as possible. Which brought in a lot of different drugs, and a lot of interesting people. I did it with this group of friends, and we were all kind of on this plan to have a lot of fun, and figure the world out and come up with all the theories and ideas of what the world was. As a part of my story, I started to live this kind of double life. I was going to church, and like, you know, blessing sacrament, but then I would go out on the weekends and get totally wild, and lie to people who didn't think that I did that. And lie to the people who knew that I did that, you know about the church. I was just kind of a chameleon, I was just kind of a liar. You know, Jekyll and Hyde thing. I didn't know how to tell the truth. And I was somewhat good at manipulating, and telling people what they wanted to hear. I think people generally liked me, so I could—not that I intentionally did it, but I could manipulate my way into a job or into a relationship or into getting out of trouble, or, you know, turning a U into an N in high school to play baseball, or change a grade from whatever it was to a grade that it needed to be in order to play ball. So, I was just kind of living this bounce around life. I was the baseball player and the boyfriend, but then I was the partier.
Then I was preparing for the mission and, kind of just living five different lives all in one. Looking back, that is the tough way to form some kind of foundation or identity. I didn't know who I was. I was just going to be who you wanted me to be in the moment. So, without a foundation, I got my mission call and tried to go on a mission, and without any conviction behind it. I came home in two days. And then I got married in the temple to my first wife. Even though I loved her, and we had been together for a long time, I just wasn't in any place to do anything like that. I mean, I had no business shooting for the moon that way. I was an absolute disaster. And, nobody really knew, except for the guys that I was using with on a daily basis. That was during the oxycontin explosion, so it had kind of turned into a daily use of that.
Fast forward through that marriage into 2008. It had turned into heroin, and needles. By that time, I was full blown into justified anti-religion and anti-establishment, thinking, the government was out to get me, and the church is out to get me, or they've done me wrong, even though that wasn't true. I had burned every bridge I had ever built. Even the guys that I used with started looking at me different, like, “Dude, you're kind of messed up.” So, I had nothing left. My first wife was gone. I was in my mom's basement at the time, with no job, no money. I didn't have the energy to even steal anything anymore or try to come up with a plan to get to Salt Lake.
Where my life changed was this: I was about a day and a half into withdrawal, and I was super dark. I was thinking about suicide every day, probably for a year, every day, just constantly. About a day and a half into this withdrawal, I was just kind of in the basement. And I don't know why, because I thought God hated me—I thought I had sinned my way out of His club, you know, I thought I was done. But I just said a little prayer. Something just like, “Hey, I know I've screwed up a lot. But if you’re there, I could use your help right now.”
And nothing really happened immediately. But I just kind of stayed there and laid there. And then I had a few thoughts kind of come to me, and one of them was, “You could ask somebody for help.” And I had never considered that. I was just so prideful, and so embarrassed, that my life had gotten to that point that even though everybody kind of knows, you still think that you can turn it around and they'll never find out.
And then I think the second thought was a little darker, not from my Higher Power. It was like, “You should take your life. You're done, you've got nobody left, you have nothing left, you have failed everything that you have ever tried.” That morning, it came with some adrenaline. Like I actually had energy to maybe do it. And that freaked me out.
A third passing thought was like, “You can try to use again, and all of this will go away.” And for some reason that morning, I just didn't want to. And probably not a coincidence. I think God probably stepped in and gave me some strength to just not really want to get loaded.
I heard somebody upstairs and I kind of crawled up the stairs and it was my older brother Landon, and he was with my nephew. I tried to kind of pretend like I was okay for a minute. But I was literally like laying on the kitchen tile, trying to feed my nephew, and I couldn't feed him because my hand was shaking so bad. He saw that and asked me if I needed some help, and I just said yeah. Three days later I was at Renaissance Ranch. That was July 28, 2008.
From that point on, my life has been totally different. It didn't all come back at once. I got to treatment, and another thing I wanted to share with you tonight is I still carried that kind of animosity for the church. I had resentment towards the church, and it was just so ridiculous, because I was the biggest part in all of it. I didn't know that until some mentors later pointed that out to me in treatment. But we did this meditation, my second day at the ranch, and a woman, who I’ll always love, her name is Chris Grove. She was a counselor there and has since retired. But she would do these guided imagery meditations on the Savior. And man, I still get the chills, and emotional when I talk about it, because like, as much as I wanted to be mad at that guy, and hold on to that resentment, as soon as she started, and I was in my second day into treatment, I didn't know what I was doing, or where I was really. Just thinking, man, I'm here another day, and she started that meditation, and I just started sobbing.
For me to cry … I cry only about twice a year. Okay, more now that I have kids, but it's hard for me to get to an emotional place. But when she started that, it was really amazing imagery of the Savior taking my wounded heart and replacing it with His heart that's just full of love and light. I was sobbing. And during that I just had this overwhelming feeling, and what I heard, or what I heard with my heart, not any words in my head, but the message to me was like, “I'm still here. And I've always been here. And if you meet me halfway in this thing, I got you.” The best way I can describe the feeling that it was, it was just kind of like, “I've never left, you know, I've always been here.” And so that happened.
We went to church, in treatment. Back then we had to go and I'm grateful we did because it kind of got you used to going again and being in the chapel. Once you've been away from it for a while, it kind of takes a minute to get used to again. It's just different. I carried in all of this kind of intellectual church history stuff that was in my brain. Things that I had read, things that I had seen, things that I had studied, that are pretty compelling. I mean, I think that's why people have questions and leave, ‘cause some of it's hard to kind of make sense of. But you know, all I ever wanted when I was using was to be okay again, and to feel peace. That's all I wanted. I just wanted to feel peace, and things like that feeling I had on Trek as a teenager. And I had the same feeling—even though I was in the MTC for only two days, I felt it there too. And I felt it in the temple. And I felt it in that meditation, and I felt it the morning I asked for help, and I felt it when I started going back there to church, and it's the only place that I have had that specific feeling of peace and calm, like when I'm here, like I'm safe, and that's a big deal to me. I mean, for me to feel safe, because I just was not safe. I didn't feel safe. I felt scared. I mean, I felt like ending my life a lot, so to have those thoughts gone, and to feel safe, and have this sweet calm feeling, this warmth kind of just peace, it's different than goosebumps. I mean that's part of it, but I get goosebumps when somebody hits a walk off home run, so I think that's a moment too. Or if I hit a good golf shot, there's something there, but it's like there's only one thing that when I associate with it and I invest in it. It gives me a calm, stable, feeling of safety, and that's with the gospel. Even when I would question the Book of Mormon, and I had read so much that I thought it was made up and not a real thing. But when I would read it, just in my heart, it was like, “There's something to this book, it's real.”
20:20
And you got to trust your heart over your head. Because my head's always been out to get me. Like, it just has. But my heart’s never betrayed me. And so, and that's how I kind of still live today is like, just stay consistent.
20:44
You know, I was disfellowshipped. And that was even like a positive thing. After treatment, I just went in and kind of did a step four and five and wanted to be totally honest, and just get right with God. And that was powerful. I didn't feel like that was a negative thing or didn't feel any shame.
Ashly Stone
21:05
So, a lot of people that listen, are probably not familiar with the 12 steps. So, can you explain to us a little bit about what step four and five is?
Bryan
21:14
Yeah, the 12 steps, I mean, the church kind of borrowed them and asked permission to use them from Alcoholics Anonymous. During the Great Depression era, Bill and Bob, a Wall Street broker and a doctor, and a friend Ebby, and another, they literally started Alcoholics Anonymous, just from speaking from the heart and being honest about alcoholism, and now it's everywhere in the world. They came up with the 12 steps. At the ranch, we would say, it's the Atonement. It's the practical blueprint of the Atonement. So, step four is like writing an inventory of your life. You know, your conduct, your fears, your resentments. And step five is sharing that with somebody. So, it's kind of a confession, but it's also kind of an introspective, deep dive into what's real, what's really going on with you. So, it can be powerful. I felt like I kind of did that with an AA sponsor. I've done several since then. But I wanted to do it with a church council. For some reason, I just felt like that was necessary. Just to get right.
So, I met my wife in 2010. Rebecca, not a member of the church back then. Just a beautiful, energetic, powerful—
Ashly Stone
23:01
She’s amazing.
Bryan
Yeah.
Ashly
She's amazing.
Bryan
23:05
When I met her, we met at a concert at Pioneer Park, a reggae show. There was just something about her that was just captivating. I could tell she was super strong. And maybe the thing I liked the most that I could see immediately was, she is who she is. She is an individual, she has identity, and she's super strong, and I was really drawn to that. We started dating and got married a year after that and had Porter. But not a member, and part of our relationship was like, “That's not a big deal,” like, “You never have to be. My religious practice is private and personal,” and she was cool with that. And I was cool with her doing her thing and being on her journey with God. And so I was kind of going back for a while, mostly on, sometimes off with the church, but mostly on, just kind of supporting my recovery with another avenue of spirituality. In fact, my sponsor in Alcoholics Anonymous, not a member of the church, he had really cool long hair, a spiritual guru, but he was actually the one that kind of nudged me back to be active. He just felt like it would benefit me to just kind of join that fellowship back and make amends, and make right, and just check it out, and see what it's really about now that I was sober, and right with God. And he was right.
And not only him, but in my life I've had, you know, uncles and parents and heroes in recovery like the guys that started the ranch and, and the people there that run it now with me, and all of my friends, and people at other places in recovery, but they're all these friends and people that are active in the gospel. I just wanted what they had. I just have always kind of watched them. And it's like, they have their recovery from substance abuse. And then they kind of added this church fellowship and gospel to it. And that kind of put my recovery on steroids, I guess you could say. It just kind of solidifies what I got going on.
So, I introduced my wife, because a few years ago, the missionaries showed up at our house. Prior to that night, they had come to our house, in Salt Lake, and then now in Kaysville, and I had always kind of guarded her from them and just said, like, we're good here, we're okay. And this last time, she walked up behind, and you know her, she just, like, moved me out of the way and told me, “Go somewhere else, I invited them to come talk to me.” Which I hadn't expected at all, and I just thought, “Wow, that's, that's interesting, we'll see how this goes.”
She was kind of going through a personal journey of spirituality with God, at the time, and she ended up getting baptized, and I was able to do that with her, to baptize her. And it's just amazing. I think of what a converted heart or conversion can happen so powerfully and so rapidly. A change of heart. And the Spirit is the Spirit. And you can't argue with it, you can't debate it. It just is what it is. And it's that kind of quiet calm, that peace.
She said something about the Book of Mormon, that's the coolest thing that I've ever heard about the Book of Mormon. When we were just chatting, I said, “Well, what do you think about the Book of Mormon?” And she said, “I'm not sure, it's kind of confusing.” Not her exact words, but her exact words were, “There's just something about it that's familiar to me.” You know, and I had never heard anybody use that word.
Ashly Stone
28:34
That just gave me the chills all over.
Bryan
28:38
Yeah, me too. That's the coolest way that I've ever heard anybody describe the Book of Mormon, that it was familiar to them. Because it was like, wow. Because I can relate to that. For whatever is said about it, and how it came about and what it is, I think you can get lost in the clouds with a lot of that conversation and debate. And it usually comes along with some energy and animosity, and I'm kind of a simple hippie, even though I don't use anymore, so it's like, I'm just gonna sit down and read it and see how I feel. And when I do that, my life just seems to go better. It seems to have more clarity, and I feel more strength, and I feel like I have a purpose, more purpose. You know, and I learn from it, it's not just all feelings, but for me, it's a big deal, just to feel like when I read this book, I feel safe. And I feel like I can stay sober today. And I feel like I can help others a little bit better. I feel like I'm more patient with my family, I feel like I can show up for people a little bit more genuinely. And I'll take that all day. I mean, it’s like the pros that come from living the gospel and being active in the church, and kind of making peace with my resentments, and all that intellectual kind of war that's in my head, like, it's gone. I mean, I watch other people do it and struggle with it. I mean, it's pretty right in the recovery community. I think most people trying to get sober have issues with God, or opinions about religion, or God. And not just the LDS church, but you know, any church, or any concept of God. And so I'm around it constantly, and it just kind of reminds me what my life is without it. It's just kind of chaotic, and scary, and dark. And I don't want to feel like that anymore.
Ashly Stone
31:26
I love that, that is so amazing. Wow, I am just so, I don't know. This is seriously one of the most beautiful stories that I've heard on this podcast. So, thank you so much. I have a couple of questions for you. Some of them are submitted by people that are listeners of the podcast. And one of the questions that I have is, do you have any kind of daily routine? Or what's your thing that keeps you grounded on a regular basis and keeps you close? Or maybe an experience that you've had, or just something that keeps you close to the Savior?
Bryan
32:22
Yeah, good question. So, ever since treatment 14 years ago, I developed these routines, and they've kind of altered over time, but the ones that are always there and constant is to plug in and connect in the morning. That's kind of at this point, a combination of—definitely prayer, and it's prayer on my knees, not in the shower. Because I used to do that, and I think that's fine, too. I still do that. But I definitely need to bow to the ground on my knees, and connect and plug in and pray. And then it's also kind of a meditative listen. I’ll read something, whether it's scripture or a daily reflection. Recovery has all these little daily books, you know that, but for those that don't know, just kind of a daily thought, or practice or perspective that's positive and optimistic, like motivational stuff. And then I always have these staple books that I use in the morning. So, my routine is always in the morning to kind of get the day started. And sometimes I have space at home to do that, like during the workout. Sometimes I wait till I get to work because I can't find the space or time to do it at home. My work is a treatment center, so it provides a good setting to be quiet and prayerful and mindful and meditative. Since that experience in treatment, I’ve always meditated. I mean, that for me, it kind of comes from things that a mentor of mine would say: to listen more than I pray. Because God's tired of hearing what I have to say—which I don't believe anymore, but the point taken was that I never really listened as part of a practice of prayer. It was just like you say your prayers, and then you go to bed or you say your prayers and you go about your business, and it's like, you know, meditation added this component of like just being still and connecting to breath and body and, and like, just kind of listening and not racing through life. That's a huge part of my routine. And then I always have to reach out and help other people at some point during the day. Talk to who I need to talk to, connect with my friends in recovery. And I do that in a lot of different ways. It could be a 12-step meeting, it could be shared music, text threads with friends that love music. And so, we're constantly sharing music back and forth and staying connected. So, it’s like prayer, meditation, books, anything that takes practice and time to actually sit down and not do anything, I think is super important, especially in today's world that's so fast.
Ashly Stone
36:03
It sounds like you're very intentional with the way that you spend your time during the day. And I really love that. Another question for you. What advice would you have for somebody that might be struggling with some of the outside noise of church history stuff, or all the different things that can be distracting from what really matters most? What advice would you give to them?
Bryan
36:41
That's a good question, too. I'm trying to feel this one out so I don't just give you a fake answer. I think everybody's journey is important, even the dark times. I kind of believe in and trust that God has timing for everything. And there's this really cool meditation that kind of looks toward eternity on a timeline, which is a hard thing to grasp. But it's like, if somebody's progression is on an eternal scale or plane, then their kind of struggle on Earth doesn't seem so drastic, or panicked; then I can just be friends with whoever's in that spot. I'm not above or below them, for sure. We're just on different journeys. And I think their journey is important. I don't think there's anything I could say or do to change their mind. Because I think that's an important journey. Whether they make it back to the religion or not, the best thing that I can do is always just try to be like somebody that's attractive spiritually, somebody that's walking the walk. I think the worst thing that I could do to those people that are in that place is promote, or try to debate or convince, or give them something negative, saying, “You should try this,” or “Have you ever thought about this.” That always feels shallow, that always feels like I'm doing more harm than good. So, I think it's just love. I have so many friends and people in my life that are in that spot, and we're still super tight. We respect each other, and they're on their journey and I'm on mine, and we can still be friends. I know that doesn't really answer your question, but I don't think there's a quick fix, nor do I really believe that needs a fix. I really believe in an eternal timeline. So, whatever God has in store for that individual, it's coming.
Ashly Stone
39:36
Yeah. I agree with you so, so much. I had a dream last night—it’s so weird because it's just coming to me as we're talking about this—but in my dream, I had a family member that I really wanted to share my message and my podcast with, and I really wanted them to hear it and help them. And I had an impression that the struggle is where we learn. That's like, I need to stop hoping, trying to change their path or influence because there's so much to learn in the struggle. That is the lesson, and that can really teach us, so what you said was so amazing. Thank you so much for that.
Bryan
40:40
No, thank you, thank you for sharing, I believe it. I think pain is the touchstone of spiritual growth. I think pain is necessary. I think pain and struggle is a spiritual thing. I think if you look at it as like, when you're having a terrible day or week or month or year, or going through the hardest things in your life, I think having a perspective or mindset of this being a spiritual thing, actually, I'm being cleansed by fire, and having hurt and pain and emotion. It sucks and it's uncomfortable, and it's super hard. But maybe it's happening for a number of different reasons too, for me to be able to speak a different language eventually, a different kind of spiritual language. You know this, and knowing you a little bit, and Jesse, and so many people, their most spiritual moments in life usually come right in the middle of the worst time in their life. So, I think the veil is super thin during that moment. Even though the person usually thinks that God’s so far away, I think He's right there. I think in that moment of pain and suffering, I think there are angels, and I think God's right there. At least in my mind.
Ashly Stone
42:11
Yeah, I agree. So right on. Okay, so my last question: how are you doing your meditation? This is mostly for me, but I'm sure listeners will be interested in this as well. How do you do your meditation? Do you use an app? What does that look like? After hearing you say all this, I'm thinking, okay, I need to meditate more, I need to start listening for God to speak to me because I say my prayers, but I need to take more time to listen. So, I'm just curious what tools you use for meditation.
Bryan
42:49
I've definitely used all the apps, Headspace is really good. If you're just getting into it. Calm is a really good one. I've kind of gone down the rabbit hole with Headspace and the founder of Headspace was a really interesting guy from the UK that joined a monastery and was a monk. Then he escaped—he climbed over the fence and escaped the monastery. An interesting guy. But there are really easy, simple techniques from Headspace.
There's a common—I want to say this because it comes up every time, and I want to shut it down, for people that have this kind of rebuttal with meditation. They'll say, “Anytime I try to meditate, my mind just races and races and races, and meditation doesn't work for me.” And what I would say is that's a reason to meditate more, not to never meditate. You do it to practice, and the goal is not to calm the mind or shut the mind off, it's just to let the mind do what it's doing, and just observe it, and not judge it and just let it be. And the more that you do that, the less busy your mind is. I mean if I haven't meditated for a little while I'll drop into practice, and my mind will be super loud and all over the place. And it's a good little inventory. It's like wow, I've kind of been complacent for a while. But to answer your question, my go to is in my office at work actually, and I have this little sand garden which is super cool, and statues of Christ, and statues from different religions, and I’ll burn some incense, and just play some spa radio or meditation music. There are so many YouTube channels, meditation channels. There are amazing people out there that are gurus and can teach us so much with meditation. And yoga, yoga is amazing. I'm definitely a novice, and I do it every once in a while, but there's just so many amazing people out there that can help and teach with meditation. I would suggest getting a companion book or an app to teach you principles in simple terms while you're starting. I'm not talking to you, but just so everybody that wants to try doesn't get discouraged and quit. Because it's because they don't feel like a burning bush, calm moment when they start meditating. It's gonna feel like the opposite for a while.
Ashly Stone
46:08
Yeah, I can relate to that, for sure. I feel like, even if I go to the gym, and it's not really early in the morning, I don't have my phone, I'm not plugged in or anything. When I'm at the gym, even and it's too late, if I'm going to the 8:30 or 9am class, I'm thinking, “Oh my gosh I have this going on,” and “Oh my gosh this person's calling me,” and “Okay, I gotta get out of here.” I am just too distracted, I have too much going on. And anytime I've tried to meditate, it is very, very similar. My mind is racing. So just hearing how you have described meditation, I'm thinking I need some of that in my life. I really do.
Bryan
46:52
Old religions I think that practice meditation, look towards those as well. And then, you love and respect yourself enough to give yourself a half an hour to not do anything. Because we all have half an hour for sure. But I know you're super busy.
Ashly Stone
47:15
I am a little too busy sometimes. Awesome. Okay, do you have any final thoughts or any final anything before we wrap up?
Bryan
47:29
Only to keep doing what you're doing. I think it's unbelievable. I think you know, connecting more people to messages of hope and optimism, and you know, conversion, I think this world needs it. They need the message amidst the chaos. So just keep doing what you're doing.
Ashly Stone
47:52
Thank you so much and we will be in touch soon.
