"I was in a room filled with other people that had been abused as children and they were talking about how worthless they were and how much they didn't deserve anything. I was looking at all these women who were the most beautiful women, that had this beautiful light to them, telling me how worthless they were. I just thought "oh my gosh these are the most beautiful and amazing women - and they have no idea!" Then the spirit spoke to me and said "that is how I feel about you." From them on, that is when I chose to love myself and chose to see myself as a daughter of God."
Ashly Stone
Come Back Podcast
Transcription
ASHLY
00:48
Okay, so, Tess, I am so excited to hear your story and just hear all about you. You have quite a big following on Instagram. So, can you tell us a little bit about your Instagram and kind of what you do?
TESS
01:03
Yes. Okay, so I am the Enneagram Mama on Instagram. I started about two years ago, just sharing the Enneagram which is basically like a personality test. And it has honestly just changed my life. I am just so grateful. Like, it blows my mind every day how many people follow me and talk to me. And I just feel very blessed to be able to be in people's lives and help make a difference and help people in their marriages and to understand themselves better. So yeah, it's just, it's been quite the journey, one that was kind of unexpected.
ASHLY
01:41
That is so awesome. I love that so much. Well, okay, so I am so excited to just hear your story. So, if you want to just go ahead and jump in and start from the beginning, we'd love to hear it.
TESS
01:57
Okay, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. I grew up a member of the Church. And that is kind of what I've known. But I also grew up in a household that my stepdad was Catholic, so we went to midnight mass often. We celebrated other cultures and religions a lot of the times because my grandparents visited Africa often or Japan. So, we celebrated a lot of religion and cultures. And that was kind of my norm.
But I was very strict. I was trying to be perfect, literally, like anywhere in the Book of Mormon that it was like, “be perfect, be ye there perfect.” And I was like, “Okay, that's the goal,” right? I'm going to be perfect. And I wasn't. I don't know, that might be a spoiler alert, but I wasn't.
And so, I actually got married when I was 19. And we got married in the temple. And I was divorced by 21. And that was a really hard place to navigate. And at that point, we had taken off our garments, I started drinking, and I had no knowledge that I was a severe alcoholic. I used it to kind of numb the pain 99% of the time, because I was pretty sure “Well, if I'm not going to be perfect, then I might as well just literally go off the rails.” And I did. I literally went off the rails, I ended up living with a boyfriend who was severely abusive for a little over a year. And I would hide alcohol in my drinks just to go to sleep at night because I was in so much emotional, physical pain, and not having any kind of anchor.
I literally just felt like I was like living someone else's life because I was like, “This is not me. This is not who I am.” So, I ended up leaving that boyfriend, and was just really trying to find myself. And I ended up getting alcohol poisoning at a party. And I was so sick. Oh, my gosh, I was the sickest I've ever been in my entire life. And I just like couldn't stop throwing up for an entire day. I probably should have been hospitalized. I was not bad. And I have no one during that time. No one was checking on me. I felt like death. And I just kind of was literally at that rock bottom. I had hit it. And I was laying there.
And I said a prayer for the first prayer I'd said in like two years. And I said, “Heavenly Father, if you'll just heal me, I will never drink again. I'm ready for this change. I'll do whatever I'm supposed to do.” And within a half an hour, I would deathly ill to like “Oh, I feel fine now.” And I was like, “Oh, I have to keep that promise because He kept His promise on His end.”
05:23
And so, after that I started going to church again. And it was really interesting because I was still kind of sick for the next couple of days. And I actually went on my first date with my husband while I still had alcohol poisoning. And I told him that I had the flu because he was this cute little guy that I met on like LDS Planet at the time or whatever. And I was like, “Oh, I have the flu.” And I realized through our date like, “Crap, this isn't a person I could lie to.” And so, I just kind of told him everything. I was like, “So, I actually have alcohol poisoning, but I'm not drinking ever again. And he's like, “Okay.” Just like what an odd, cute little girl.
Anyway, so we ended up getting married. I was disfellowshipped from the church a little while after we had gotten together. And so, I spent that next year working really hard to come back. Because as I was trying to be so perfect and thought that that's what Christ was looking for. I had no idea that Christ was never looking for anybody perfect at his table.
And I think even now, that's something I'm still learning. And I have now been sober for almost 11 years. My husband and I got married in the temple a year after we got married. I have three beautiful boys. Because I got off the rails, I wouldn't have been able to give this life to my children. And one of the biggest things when I left my ex was that I never wanted my children to be talked to the way I was getting talked to. And I wanted my children to be raised by a good man.
And I look at my life, and even though I'm in a really hard season right now, I just think how different it would have been if I wouldn't have said that prayer that night. I wouldn’t have come back. Even though I've been through struggles in the last couple years, I can't leave, because I've seen what my life is like on the flip side. There was no joy. There was no happiness. It felt so lonely. And being here, even in my hardship and my trials that I'm going through right now, I'm not alone, ever. And I know that. And I also know I don't have to be perfect because Jesus didn't invite the perfect people to his table, because there weren’t perfect people. Nobody's perfect. So, it's been a journey.
ASHLY
08:23
Yeah, I think it's interesting that you talk about how you said a prayer. I met recently with a group of researchers, and what they're studying is people coming back from a faith crisis and kind of what that is that brings them out of the faith crisis. And they said that almost every time it starts with them saying a prayer. And also, the miracle of you being healed. In the podcast, I've heard several people have similar experiences, where these miracles just happen, and you can't really deny how incredible the miracles are.
This is kind of my perception, I could be totally off base here, but it's almost like, when you need God, you're in this really dark place, and you need Haim. And He will make it so you can't deny that He's reaching his hand out for you.
I can relate to your story so much. I was a heroin addict. And I was in rehab, and I was in Fresno, California. And I think I've probably shared this on the podcast before so excuse me, listeners, if you've heard this before.
I'm at the Salvation Army, and I'm the only member of the church. And I wasn't an active member by any means. But I was the only one that had a background of the church that I knew of that was there. And I'm like, “Oh, I just don't want to be here. This sucks.” I had to work in the warehouse 40 hours a week, and the preacher pulls me in his office and he's like, “Okay Ashly, pick a Bible to use while you're here.” And there's a shelf with like 100 Bibles on it or something. And I'm like, “I'll just pick the pink Bible” and he hands me the Bible, and there's a Book of Mormon bookmark in there.
I knew in that moment that that was my miracle. And God was like, “I am here. You're in the right place.” It's almost like He is just evidently reaching out to. You have blinders on, you're not ready to see. So, it's like, He's intervening.
And I feel like as we go along, and we're doing what's right, we're building our testimony. And as we go along, I think He requires more faith from us. Those things, those miracles that are like slapping you in the face, they're not coming as frequently as they were in the beginning, when you were first coming back. I think it requires more faith and more effort on our part to have that close connection with heaven. And that's kind of my hypothesis, anyways.
TESS
11:31
My mom refers to it as the two-by-four method, because it takes a two-by-four to get the message across to us. She's like, “We're just not regular people. We’re two-by-four people.”
ASHLY
Yes, I can relate 100%.
So, during this time, where were your parents? When you were going through this, where were your parents? What did that look like?
TESS
11:59
So, I had actually just moved back home a couple of weeks before I got alcohol poisoning. So, I had been living by myself for a brief time in between this, and I just moved back home. My parents knew I was really struggling, but I don't think anyone knew how much I was struggling because I'm really good at faking it. I'm an excellent faker.
I could be in the depths of despair, and be like, “Everything's fine.” And they're like, “Oh, okay, I guess she must be fine.” So, I don't think they really knew. And that was kind of the weekend when I got sick, they were like, “Oh, oh, you're going through a lot.” I went down to my room in the basement, and they left me there. There was no communication. I think they were really kind of disappointed. I grew up in a family that no matter what, I was loved. I was loved above all else. Which, I'm so grateful, because I had an abusive boyfriend at the time, who literally took away everyone for me. So, all I had was my family. And they just loved me through all of my figuring out and searching myself. And they were just like, “Okay, we love you. Obviously.”
I think one of the best things my mom said to me, which made me actually decide to date my husband, because he totally would have been like friendzone material where I was at in my life. But one of the things she said to me is that messes attract messes. Because I kept saying like, “Why do these people keep coming into my life that are just crappy people?” And like, “Why did these things keep happening?” Because I'm a good person at heart, so why does this keep happening? And she said, “Messes, attract messes.”
And I had to sit with that and go, “Oh, crap, I'm the mess. I’m the mess.” I really had to identify that. After I had my oldest son, he turned eight next month, as I had him, trauma starts to come back, right? Nobody told me about that, like when you have a baby, trauma comes back.
And so, I had to deal with some of the childhood abuse that I dealt with, the abuse I went through, and relationships, and I had to start going to therapy, and I started to have to deal with those messes. Because they were put in place. All the hardships I've gone through, I didn't have the proper tools to handle situations, right. And so, it was easier to turn to alcohol, it was easier to call myself a failure and just to fall off the wagon, instead of actually know how to pick up tools and start to heal yourself. Because healing yourself, that's actual work. That’s hard.
ASHLY
15:02
Right. So, when you got divorced, tell me a little bit more about that. After you get divorced, that conscious choice that you're going to take your garments off and “I'm going this way and I'm leaving that behind,” tell me more about how that felt and what that was like?
TESS
We had been married for like a year and a half, and I ended up having an affair in that time. It was so uncharacteristic of me. I was literally in a job where everybody was having affairs. Everyone. And so, everything happened, and I was like, “This is not who I am.” And so, it made it easier to walk away from the church because outside of the church, it's okay, right? I mean, it's not fully okay, but it's not looked at like, “Oh, now you're a sinner” type thing.
So, I was like, “Oh, it'll be easier to walk away. It'll be easier to drink. It'll just be easier to just be done with all my covenants because it'll hurt less.” And in that we eventually decided we weren't going to work on our marriage at all. And which I was like, “Okay, that's fine. I'm just gonna walk away, and I'm going to start my own life.”
And I remember that day we went to go sign the divorce papers, it hadn't affected me. I was like, “Oh, no big deal.” Until we went to go sign the divorce papers together. And I literally got in my car –rudest thing of all things that could happen—in my car, as I turned my car on, on the radio was our wedding song.
And I was like, “Geez! No!” And I just started bawling. Because like I was like, “Oh, it's no big deal. We just have known each other for a couple of years.” It never really hit me until that moment, everything I was losing. And again, it felt better rather than heal, rather than go through that journey, but the same time, as I started dating people, I wanted to date and marry people that had high standards. And the problem was, I wasn't finding those men. I was like, “I'm never gonna meet someone I want to marry at a bar. It's not gonna happen.”
And so, then that's why I started surrounding myself with other LDS people, even though I'm kind of in a faith crisis. And I'm grateful that I met my husband in that timeframe, who let me be in that. Who let me go figure that out for myself, but also that he had high enough standards to not tolerate it either. And he was like, “I want this for my life. I want this for my wife, for the mother of my children one day.” And he knew I was capable of that. More than I even did in that time.
ASHLY
18:18
Yeah, for sure. So, when you were going through your faith crisis and all of that, were you questioning if the church was true? Were you questioning that? What did that look like?
ASHLY
I know a lot of people, especially today, are like, “I'm walking away because I don't believe in the church at all anymore.” For me, it was, “I know the church is true, and that's why it's so painful to stay.” The people I was hanging out with that were very anti-LDS then, even with them I’d be like, “The church is true. I know that.” And they're like, “Why? Why are you living this life then?” And I'm like, “Because I don't deserve it.” I truly didn't believe I deserved God's love. And now, after having children, I'm like, “Oh, that's the farthest thing that could ever be true.” My kids could do nothing, and make me not love them. And I think having children made me truly understand God's love for me, my mom's love for me, my family's love for me. But yeah, during that time, it was always like, “I know it's true. It's not for me, because I'm not worthy.”
ASHLY
And isn't it interesting, when you step away from the church, and you see people that are in the church, they have a glow around them? It's like you're drawn to them because they feel safe. And they feel like home. And I think that it is exactly what you said, you want to push the church away because you feel too guilty, and you feel like “I don't fit in. I can't do it” or whatever, but you're still so drawn to the security and the safety and just the overall light that the church brings.
And I've heard that common theme in a lot of podcast episodes, as well. And I've experienced that myself. It just feels like coming home. And that's what it sounds you kind of experienced as well.
TESS
20:43
Yeah, and I will say, it was never easy to come back. But that feeling of peace, I never could find, no matter how hard I searched for it. Even in my relationship with my husband, it wasn't really there until I was making that active choice to say, “Okay, I need to deal with my consequences. I need to come back.”
It is like home. And there's so many people that are going through faith crises right now. And my heart goes out to them, not because I want to be like, “Oh, just stay.” But because I'm like, “That's your own journey.” I just know outside, I lost it. It feels like when you are little and you lost your mom in a store, and you're just frantically looking for her. And you're like, “She's gotta be here somewhere, because she wouldn’t have left without me.” And that's what I always felt like. It always felt that like that. High anxiety like, “Oh my gosh,” because the consequences were so much bigger. You're dealing with me going to work hungover or me driving and going, “I hope I didn't have too much to drink.” Those are consequences I never ever in my entire life had to deal with as a member of the church. Never. I never had to deal with, “Oh, my gosh. I wonder if I'm pregnant?” And how scary that would be. I never had to deal with any of those questions when I was imperfectly following the church.
ASHLY
Yeah, I 100% can relate to that. I always think to myself how inspired is it that the church says, “Don't drink alcohol.” There are so many things, so many problems, that are avoided by just not drinking alcohol. Nothing against people that do drink alcohol because I drank alcohol and was a raging alcoholic for years. But I think you can just avoid so many potential life consequences by not drinking. And there are people that aren't like you and I, that can drink socially and be completely normal. And that's great. But there is always that chance that things can go really wrong and head in the complete opposite direction that you want them to go.
And so, I find it very fortunate that that is part of what we believe in is to not drink alcohol. And also getting sober, it's nice to be able to go to an entire group of people that don't drink and it's like, “Oh, I got a whole group of people here that doesn't drink, so I don't have to worry.”
TESS
I remember once kind of celebrating like my fifth year sober that someone commented. She had been someone I drank with, and she commented like, “You're just being an attention seeker, you weren't really an alcoholic. You weren't all these things.”
And I was like, “okay, number one, you don't know what I was going through.” But number two, I didn't just come back to the church, and magically all that temptation was taken away. I never ever, ever had the temptation to drink until I was met with “I could either drink and let go of all those feelings,” or “I could just not drink.” And finally, I had been asked that question so many times, I was like, “the pain is too much. I'd rather drink.” But now I have to deal with that temptation every single day.
And I don't think that people truly understand, unless you have had an addiction, what it is like to battle that because it's not just like, “Oh, I would love some wine to wind down at the end of the night.” No, it's like, “I would love a bottle of wine and to be passed out for two days.” There's no, “I just would like a sip.” There's none of that. I literally, I went cold turkey. I made that decision.
ASHLY
25:08
How do you deal today? Obviously, there's things that come up that are challenging and you have to face them head on. How do you deal with hard things today and keep your faith and choose to go on the right path instead of going down the wrong path? How do you do that today?
TESS
Oh, I love that. I love that question. For me, I think one of the biggest ones is surrounding myself with people who know my struggles, who would genuinely know that something like that would be a struggle for me. And being able to have those honest conversations. I've literally told my husband, “You don't know how hard I fought the temptation just to go get a drink today.” To like just go and leave the kids at home and go drive and go grab myself a beer. At this point, I don't even care.
And my husband, who literally has only accidentally had a drink when he was a teenager and something was in his drink one time, has the faith to move mountains. And I’m over here, like, “I have to fall off to come back.” I have him, who he's been my rock through everything. He has been through me going to therapy. He's been through my healing. Having him and having friendships with people that truly understand.
And then I think being able to have some humor to it, too. I can just be like, “You know, I would love to have some wine with that right now.” But I don't do that. And being honest with it, it was an actual addiction. And when I bring it up, I have to be very clear that I don't drink because I'm an alcoholic, not because I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ. Those are different things.
ASHLY
It's so true. I can relate so much. I actually work for a software company in the addiction recovery space. And so, I am fortunate enough for people to just be super open about recovery, and it's no big deal.
But I think one of the things that is so awesome about going through these things is that you can be really open about like, “Yeah, I went through this, and I chose to come back. And I did this because I wanted to, not because it was the culturally appropriate thing, not because I was pressured by my parents, but because I felt like I wanted to come back. And I chose that for myself.” And I think that's such a powerful moment when you can choose for yourself that you want to be all in in the church because you want to experience the fruits of being all in and committing. So, I love that.
When you were first coming back, was it really hard for you? Did you feel ashamed coming back and that you struggled with alcohol and had an affair? What was that like coming back and sharing those things with the bishop? Did you have a lot of shame surrounding that?
TESS
28:27
So, yes and no. My bishop that I had, because I just moved back to my mom's ward, was someone I've known since like I was little girl. So, that was kind of hard to go through all of that with him, and especially to go through being disfellowshipped. But that was the most beautiful experience I've ever had in my life, to be able to go into a meeting where these men, they truly just want what's best for you.
And so, that bishop was actually the one that ended up marrying me and my husband. So, it was a really special thing for me. And I believe he even came to our sealing a year later, even though we weren't in the same area.
I think one of the best things that happened during that timeframe: I lived in Layton, Utah at the time, and my husband lived in Utah County. And so that's about an hour away from each other. So, when we got married, I moved in with him. And I moved away from everything. And that was probably the best thing I could do for myself, because I can't imagine if I would have stayed around everything at that time that was normal. So, I picked up my life and I shifted it. And so, I made the conscious decision to like, “Okay, now that I'm in a new life, I have to pick things that bring me joy.” And so that's where I met my best friends that I've had for years, I made jobs. I made sure to make conscious decisions. And so, the best thing I did for myself was move away from all of it.
ASHLY
Yeah, because there's too much temptation. It feels so liberating to be able to have the power to create the life that you want. You’re not in chains to alcohol anymore. You have the ability to choose what you want in your life, and you're not like a slave to addiction.
TESS
Absolutely. And I think it was great to move away and to start my life differently. Because so many people are like, “Oh, wow, you're totally different than you were six months ago, or a year ago.” And like, I just want to say like, “That was the point.” even though people assumed I was happy, or I was having fun, with quotation marks around it. I was never fully happy, right? That’s what I don't think people really understood. When I left, it was to pick up joy again, right? Because I was in the depths of despair.
And because people were dealing with their own depths and struggles, nobody noticed me. And I needed to pick myself up with my Savior and be able to be like, “Okay, what am I worth?” Because at that time, for years, even after until it was probably like three years after, I still struggled to think God didn't love me, that I wasn't worthy. It wasn't like, “Oh, I know, God loves me. I got a sign. I came back to the Church and everything was perfect and sunshiny and roses.” No, I still thought for years of that guilt, of that struggle for years to figure myself out. And it took me going to therapy. One of the best things I did was I went in to talk to a bishop. And he said to me, “You're not dealing with addiction, you are dealing with trauma. You don't need a bishop; you need a therapist.”
ASHLY
I love that he said that.
TESS
Yeah, because I think we were taught so much like, “You go to your bishop,” and the bishop was like, “I can't handle this. This is like childhood wounds. The reason you keep messing up or stumbling on your journey isn't because of Satan and sin, it is because of wounds and trauma. And he was literally like, “This is the therapist you're going to, and I'm paying for it because you need therapy.”
That was the life changing moment, that's when I really stepped into my full power. I realized God loves me because I was in a room filled with other people who had been abused as children, and they were talking about how worthless they were, and how much they didn't deserve anything. And I was looking at all these women who had also been abused, and who were just the most beautiful women that had just these beautiful lights in them, telling me how worthless they were.
And as I sat there, I thought, “Oh, my gosh, these are the most beautiful, amazing women. And they have no idea.” I had the Spirit speak to me and said, “and that's how I feel about you.” And from then on, that's when I chose to love myself and chose myself to see myself as a daughter of God, not just someone who's guilty or someone that is a sinner. I am a child of God. And that's where I could go. I see it now. And that's when the healing really started to take place for me.
ASHLY
Wow, that is so beautiful. I love that.
So, tell me, what are some things that you do on a daily basis, or weekly basis or whatever, that keeps your testimony strong and just keeps you grounded?
TESS
33:25
I would say I probably had a shaky foundation up until probably midway through this year even. I knew I was supposed to be part of the church, but the last couple years has been rough. And I feel like it's bombarded so many things.
But I feel like it's also gotten to the point where you have to pick a side. You can't just like you can't sit on the fence anymore. You can't just be neutral; you actually need to choose where you stand.
And I remember my husband asking me because my husband also has an LDS podcast. He just speaks how it is. And I'm over here like, “I don't want to offend anybody.” And he's like, “You need to decide what you actually want.” And I remember that night praying, and just being like, “Okay, I'm going to take a step.” And so, at that point, it was that I'm going to start reading my scriptures every single night. And I’ve kept that up for the last six months, and just having the scriptures or having the Ensign about and any type of talk like, “Don't Miss This.”
My New Year's resolution this year was to be in tune. That was my word of the year. I was going to be in tune, and that meant in tune with myself, in tune with those that knew more than me, and in tune with my God.
And so, my two goals this year were to pray every single day, and to read 10 pages of personal development every day. And halfway through the year, I added scriptures to that. But I will say, setting that actual intention of prayer and kneeling down and requiring it probably led me to being able to be like, “Okay, now I'm ready to read the scriptures.” And now I'm to the point where I'm like, “Oh, I'm ready to add Come, Follow Me.”
And I'm adding things instead of saying, like, “Okay, I'm gonna do it all.” I'm gonna go weekly to the temple. And we're adding everything at the same time. It's those little things because they make a difference. Me reading 10 pages a day, this whole year, I've almost read 70 books. And so, I'm like, “Why do I think I need to lift a boulder when I can just be carrying a rock.” And so just making those little differences.
So, the first thing was prayer. The second thing is really immersing myself, maybe instead of the word of others and their thoughts and their testimonies and their opinions, actually going to the scriptures. Because I think we don't understand the scriptures, so we don't turn to them. God literally wrote this for us today.
ASHLY
What is the name of your husband's podcast?
TESS
It’s Mormon Patriot Project. His whole goal is to just get people back to their American roots.
ASHLY
I love it. That's awesome.
TESS
I shared your podcast with him too. I was like, “You can just go follow this girl.”
ASHLY
37:37
That's so cool. Well, do you have any final words of wisdom for us, or thoughts, or anything you want to share?
TESS
I think just the biggest thing is no matter where you're sitting, no matter what you're trying to figure out, God's there. He's been there the whole time. No matter what you've done. If you think you are the biggest sinner on this earth, He's there. And He's just waiting for you. And He loves you.
And that is the thing that's gonna grow your testimony and grow yourself the most is to recognize if you could look at your son, or your daughter, and look at them and go, “Oh my gosh. They just used a permanent marker on my brand-new couch,” or like, “They just told me that they hate me,” or “they just dropped my brand-new dish, and it's broken.” If you can look at your child in that moment, and go, “Oh, my gosh, I hate that you did this.” But you could never hate them. You could never turn your heart away from your child. Ever. No matter the circumstances, you love them to your core. And that is truly just a tiny bit of God's love for you.
And I think that's something that the world's trying not to talk about right now. I thought for the longest time, I'm just gonna stay quiet, and I don't want to talk about this. And then I started to realize how many people were also struggling to know that God loves them. And so, it's time to share God's love for each of us.
ASHLY
I love that so much. Well, Tess, thank you so much for being on the podcast. You're such a light, and I appreciate you so much. And you have such a beautiful story, so thank you so much for being on.
