"Actively go out of your way to show your LGBTQ children that you love them, be patient with them whether they have told you about their life 10 years ago or 5 minutes ago, it is because they want you on their path. You're better off loving them and listening to them."
Come Back PodcastTranscript
Ashly Stone 00:00
This is Ashly Stone, and you're listening to the Come Back Podcast.
Andrew White 00:14
I grew up in southern Missouri, and I was raised Baptist. I was raised outside of the Church, and when I was around 15 years old, the missionaries found me and met with me. They gave me this book, the Book of Mormon. That night, they asked me if I would read and pray about the Book of Mormon and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I ended up doing that. Growing up, I never really had spiritual experiences, and I didn't really have vivid dreams or anything like that. I never remembered my dreams, but that night, I ended up having a dream that I still remember quite vividly to this day, in which my my best friend at the time in high school came to me and told me that I would join The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,
Ashly
Wow.
Andrew
and that I would serve a mission for the Lord. That kind of laid the path. I end up waking up, and I believe I had like an iPod touch at the time and recorded a little voice memo that I still have to this day through my headphones, and that laid the path for a journey into the church and coming to know the Savior. I ended up getting very deep into the church very quickly when I was 16, 17, 18, with kind of a wish or an agreement with my Heavenly Father that if I went deeper into the church, I thought that I would be blessed with being straight.
I had felt attraction to the same gender as early as I could remember, and that was kind of at the pinnacle and at the center of my conversion into the church, as well as my commitment to Christ. I would have what I viewed to be a curse my entire life. It very much tormented me. I believed it would be removed if I got baptized. It didn't go away, but I continued to meet with church leaders, and was not directly told, but it was alluded throughout my time in the church, that if I would just go a little bit deeper, just go a little bit further, commit myself further and more to Christ, and this curse will be taken away from me. That led me to working to get the priesthood and going on temple trips, and I went to Brigham Young University right after I graduated high school, eventually got my endowments, went on a mission in East Los Angeles. That wasn't the mission, but that was my area: East Los Angeles, Spanish speaking.
I was kind of given false hope. I don't blame anyone for giving me that false hope. I did make wonderful connections along the way and growth and knowledge, but this was still something that was very conflicting for me—having attractions to the same gender and reconciling my place in the gospel, the plan of salvation, and definitely temples and the eternities. Unfortunately, throughout my mission, and especially after my mission, once I was a student at Brigham Young University in Utah, I faced a lot of trauma and difficult times that were dealt by those that I was taught and believed to be my brothers and sisters in both the church and the eternities. I experienced a lot of trauma from missionaries, companions, church leaders. This continued even more so after my mission, at Brigham Young University, from both local leaders and all the way up to regional, national leaders in the church. Not directly towards myself, but policies coming out in 2015 that affected a great number of people worldwide, and caused many to question what was happening in the church.
Because of all this trauma that I went through out in Utah, I was so alone while out there. I didn't have any family living out there. I didn't really have any friends, at least not in Utah. Because of some things that I went through on my mission that just led to so much anxiety and depression, situational anxiety and depression, I came home early from my mission, then went back out on my mission. I returned to my mission, and then came home early and finally again, so most of my friends were either not members, or if they were members, they were still on their missions. All of this kind of came to a screeching halt in my life, and just had built to an insurmountable level. In 2015 when I was living in Utah, I had pretty much made all the arrangements, and I felt like I was left with only two options in life, and that was to either leave the church or to leave life completely. Eventually, I had made every last plan and detail to end my life. In 2015, while living at BYU, I was bound and determined that it was going to happen. And the only reason why I'm here today is because my Heavenly Father blessed me to have the very best earthly father that anyone could ever have, of all the people I've met in my life from all over the world, I’ve never met anyone quite like my dad. He saved me, though not physically. He saved me from what was already set in motion. I just don't even know how to repay him in this life, but I'm extremely grateful for him in my life. In the church we talk about how God puts certain people in our lives and in our paths at certain times, and that is one that is blatantly obvious. From what we're taught in the gospel, and in most Christian faiths, we believe that we are all children of God and literal brothers and sisters, but we emphasize that to another level within The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I feel like my connection with my brother, that so happens to be my dad, and this life was very much foreordained and planned. I ended up stepping away from that fork in the road of leaving the church or leaving life. I was able to pick the option that I feel was of greatest importance at the time, and now, in retrospect, I'm grateful for it. I chose to step away from the church in late 2015, November or December 2015, and then formally had myself removed from the church.
In 2016 I moved from Utah back to my home state of Missouri. I had known for years that I wanted to be a dentist. The only dental school in Missouri at the time was in Kansas City. So in 2016, I moved from Provo, Utah to Kansas City to make friends and start a new life and prepare to apply for dental school, and then eventually go to dental school. I would say that was one of the best decisions that I ever made. I'm so grateful for those that supported me in my decision to leave Utah. For years, the goal was to be in Utah, to be surrounded by what I thought was Zion, but I had such a weight lifted off of me when I moved to Kansas City, and life has honestly been great for the past seven or eight years of my life. It's been awesome. I moved to Kansas City. I had just one success after another, of academic success and just thriving like I was used to in the past, before hurdles and distractions were in my place. I made just so many friends. I had been social growing up, and felt like I had suppressed that for a few years, and I felt like this was kind of a new lease on life. And I got into a bunch of hobbies, but one in particular, I started skydiving and met this incredible community, got good at it, and it took me all over the world to countries and cultures that I would have never experienced, and I've just had so much happiness. And looking back now, I see that God was still in my life, that
He was still there and giving me the time that I needed to to kind of figure myself out, and I'm grateful for their patience and the patience of so many around me. I ended up getting into dental school, working hard and applying. And though I am very ready to be done with schooling, I'll graduate and be a dentist, and in a matter of a few months. I love dentistry. I love helping people and bringing a smile to people's faces, and I feel like I have the best of both worlds, that I can practice dentistry and be able to sustain myself outside of my career.
Most certainly, the last few years have been wonderful, and I've had successes, but also life has happened. It hasn't gone unblemished. I have had health problems, and I end up having a skydiving accident in 2021.
Ashly Stone 12:33
Tell us more about that.
Andrew White 12:38
Yeah, I was skydiving in April of 2021, and I'd been jumping for 10 years, since I was 18. It was my 625th skydive. I was just kind of in a bad headspace at the time. My mind wasn't clear. I was jumping with friends, and it was an awesome day, a perfect day, weather wise. There's like this kind of fence that separates spectators from the landing area. I was on track to clear it and to glide over it and have a feather touch landing, and have many more jumps that day, but I don't know if I was just in the wrong headspace or what. I saw this fence, and I got kind of fixated on it, and I did the opposite of what I was trained to do. What I knew to do is to break my parachute and slow my parachute down and to to glide over it. I kind of reacted. I threw my hands up, which kind of intentionally causes your parachute to go into, like a performance dive. And that's what happened. I dove to the ground. I cleared the steel T post by like an inch, otherwise it would have probably cut me in half and hit the ground extremely hard. I broke my leg. I broke a vertebrae or two in my back. I wasn't airlifted off the landing area, but I took an ambulance, and then I was airlifted later that day to a hospital
Ashley
Oh my gosh.
Andrew
and had surgery on my leg. And all this was happening at the same time as some other things in life. When all was said and done, I was recovering for some time, and I was delayed in dental school, and now I've since returned. I was out of the dental school for a year. I've since returned, and 100% now I honestly forget a lot of times that it happened. I forget what leg it was that I broke. I see the Lord's hand in the situation, and I'm grateful that I was able to make a full recovery and have some great surgeons and as well as support from family and friends and but as a result of this skydiving accident and delays in life, it kind of set in motion things I wasn't seeing coming.
Because I was delayed graduating, my good friends ended up graduating, becoming dentists and moving all over the country, and I was kind of again in a city without knowing many people. I wasn't skydiving anymore, so I was kind of removed from that community. I did go back a few times and skydive, just to kind of mentally conquer originally, right after the accident, as I'm laying in the field. In the following weeks and months, as I was recovering, I love skydiving so much, and just like aviation in general. During COVID, I ended up getting my private pilot's license while everything was shut down, and I couldn't go to the dental school because it was shut down. And definitely, to be honest, most people think it's an adrenaline rush or something. I'm an adrenaline junkie. But when I'm up there and I'm jumping, it's just me and the universe, or God, or whatever you want to call it, and the cares of the world and everything on the ground just fade away.
After my accident, I was planning to actually go right back to it full force, full steam ahead. I had friends that had accidents 30 years ago and hadn't sprained an ankle since, over 1000s of jumps, and I had friends that jumped for decades and never had a scratch. So that's kind of what I told myself, that it was okay, this was a one time thing. I was going to learn from it, and I would get back up and do it. After kind of evaluating life, and what having another accident could mean in the future to my career and my ability to use my honed in skills– I had gone to school for 10 years for one thing, and one thing that is hard to apply to any other aspect or career if needed. So I decided that I was going to go back a couple of times and kind of mentally conquer it and just so I could know I could do it. But I was still putting it on the shelf, and I was closing this chapter, but I finished it, and it wasn't finished for me. I'm glad I did that, but as a result of the delay, I was in this new cohort of a new dental school class. And to kind of make connections and to get to know people, someone in my class invited me to their non denominational Bible study, and I, not knowing anyone, said “Yes, I'll come.”
After a couple of months of us meeting, we ended up changing the day we met, and then we couldn't use the non denominational church that we were using. And someone asked, “Can we have it at anyone's house?” And I volunteered my home to host this Bible study for our men's dental school group. I hadn't read the scriptures in years from 2015 until 2022, so seven years. Me getting back into first the Bible, and feeling the Spirit, was powerful for me. I started remembering the scriptures and God's love, and feeling the Spirit, and just a sense of peace. I didn't feel like I had hit rock bottom, or my life was difficult. I had hit somewhat of a bottom after my skydiving accident, and wondered, “Am I going to be able to return to dental school? Am I going to have to completely re-figure out life?” I still had a comfortable life. It was feeling God's love and an acceptance and patience that helped me feel comfortable talking to Him, and not feeling like I wasn't His anymore, like I wasn't welcome.
I hadn't stayed in contact with a ton of people from the church, but I had stayed in contact with one in particular, my friend Michael. He and I met at EFY when he was like 16, I was 17, and through it all–through my mission, his mission, and BYU and me leaving the church and dating my ex boyfriend and such, he and I have stayed very close. I kind of reached out to him in in February of this year, and told him that I had been having a Bible study at my house, and I was reading the Book of Mormon, and I wasn't going to commit to anything, but that I wanted to travel out to where he lives now, in Utah, just to kind of meet and feel something. And that was kind of the preface to me visiting in February.
I wasn't going to Utah for answers. I was going to him to have a conversation. And he just so happened to be in Utah. We had some long conversations in private, and I pretty much just laid it all out on the table–my concerns and the pain that I still had from the actions of missionaries and companions and church leaders, and it was very raw and vulnerable. I felt a weight lifted off of me. So that was in February of this year, 2023 and now it's August 2nd. So just a few months ago, I came back to Missouri. One family in particular that has kind of taken me in as their own in Kansas City is the Hershey family. I knew their son, Jake, years ago while at BYU. We served our missions around the same time. We were both pre dental and applied to dental schools at the same time, then had our interviews. When I moved to Kansas City, I told him I was leaving the church, but he still told me, “Hey, my parents and my family live in Kansas City.” His older sister, Kylie, had already moved away from the Missouri, Kansas area, but his brother Ben, and Megan, lived in Kansas City. He told me, “Just hit my family up and they'll invite you over to dinner one Sunday.” Well, that one Sunday kind of turned into me being at their house almost every Sunday of undergrad, and doing my laundry at their house.
Ashly Stone 23:08
They’re the best. They’re just the best family.
Andrew White 23:12
Yeah, I owe them so much, because over the years, they've had the missionaries over for Sunday dinners and this and that, but they've never pushed the church on me, and they've also never, over the years, pried as to why … They knew that I had been a member. I don't even know if for quite some time they knew that I had formally left the church, but they would casually invite me to church every now and then. They'd have this wonderful family, the Ibas, over quite a bit that I've become close with, but I didn't feel pressured. I didn't feel interrogated for what had happened to cause me to leave the church, and it just kind of came naturally. Over the years, we've become wonderful friends. What started with me being friends with Jake, I've become wonderful friends with Kylie and Megan and Ben.
Ashly Stone 24:14
We need to have Megan on the podcast too.
Andrew White 24:17
We do, yes, she is amazing. I love Megan so much. Kylie's a little bit older than me, Megan's more around my age, but I was kind of there while Megan was living her life. But yeah, she definitely needs to be on the podcast. I could totally see her being willing to do that too, but yeah, I would just say that families like that, like the Hersheys, are allies. I can't speak highly enough of the importance of allies, and for people, especially LGBTQ individuals and LGBTQ youth in the church, for them having allies in their circle. And, for individuals that love them and love all God's children to vocally show that, and display that. If people aren't vocal about it, then others don't know that they're a safe place. You can be an ally to anyone, just not just LGBTQ, but just being a loving person to any and all.
In February, I ended up meeting with missionaries, and I just had one spiritual experience after another. Some of them were very subtle, you know, small whisperings of the Spirit. I have had some very profound, noticeable ones. What kind of started all of this years ago was me having, to my memory, the first dream that I can recall in my life, and it being miraculous and vivid and just so tangible. Since February, I've had similar experiences, confirmations from the Savior that I'm important and that I matter. I have had my testimony and my faith strengthened so much. I always felt like I had a strong testimony on my mission and served a worthy mission, and while I was at BYU the same–trying to become a temple worker and such. But my faith and my testimony now is leaps and bounds higher and stronger than the highest it was before I left the church. Just in a matter of a couple of months, what initially kind of hurt my faith along this journey has ended up becoming a huge blessing.
There was going to be a fireside, an LGBTQ fireside, in the Greater Kansas City area. For one reason or another, it was canceled. This really affected me. Leading up to it, I thought, “Okay, the church has made wonderful strides since my leaving,” this and that okay, “This is finally a place that I can be welcome.” I felt welcomed by this family, the Hersheys, and another family, the Ibas. As I felt welcomed by my church, my local church leaders here, much more so compared to before I left the church, and then this fireside was canceled. Kind of a huge blow. As I was working with my stake president, it ended up turning into a wonderful opportunity, at least for me. I understand that there were a lot of people that were upset by it being canceled and hurt, and I don't want to invalidate their experiences or feelings as a result of it, though, I was filled with this fire for answers and many questions, and just a passion for the answers that I needed. Not even specific answers, I just wanted answers, whether they were good or bad. Answers, whether or not they were the answers I wanted. You know, I just wanted the truth.
Ashly Stone 28:47
Why was it canceled? Did they give any explanation as to why it was canceled, or did they just say it's canceled?
Andrew White 28:53
There've been hearsay reasons. I believe that it was canceled, not because people don't want to hear about LGBTQ issues or any disrespect to the LGBTQ individuals, especially in the church, I think that it was canceled—it is like a tricky topic to kind of address from church leaders that I've met with, I've been told that it is a fine line between, especially in larger gatherings, of talking about the doctrine of Christ and understanding the plan of salvation and Christ's love and advocacy. And the advocacy kind of has to be on that line. The Brethren higher up in the church don't want those frequencies to get off, advocating away from what is doctrinally taught. I've been told that it would be preferred for these topics to be discussed in smaller groups and more personal and private settings, which I understand. So as a result of it getting canceled, I sought wherever I could find answers to the point I ended up meeting with a general authority or 70 via Zoom, and I ended up meeting with another 70 in person. Oh, well, two other 70s in person, but one in particular about this, seeking answers.
Ashly Stone 30:36
At this time, were you kind of deciding if you wanted to get baptized again or fully come back? Was this kind of your way of investigating what this looked like for you? Or, where were you in terms of getting baptized again and coming back officially?
Andrew White 30:56
I had already felt like that's what I needed to do, to get baptized. I had already received countless spiritual experiences and such, and had addressed that with my church leaders, and started meeting with my stake president quite regularly with the goal of being baptized. I think we had already kind of discussed the date, and a waiting period or a process period to that date, when this fireside got canceled. As a result, I ended up reaching out to the gentleman that was going to host the fireside. I ended up establishing a rapport with him, and getting the answers–some of them weren't the ones I wanted, but they were the ones that I needed. I just wanted truth and clarity, and I was willing to accept that in any form.
I ended up making connections that I don't think would have otherwise been made. I told the individual that was going to host the fireside, as well as others, that had everything gone as planned, I would have attended. I wouldn't have sat in the front, but I wouldn't have sat in the back. I would’ve just sat in the middle and taken my notes and told myself that was a good fireside and gone about my day and about my life. And I would have looked back on it periodically, but I don't think it would have had a profound life-altering effect, and I most certainly would have never reached out to the speaker. I would have told myself that he's too busy. He's got people to talk to, he does want to hear from me. I'm just, you know, one out of many. But as a result of it getting canceled, I did reach out to him, not expecting him to have the time or ability to to read my message, but he did. He invited me to visit him, and I was able to establish a connection with him and down the line many others, and I'm grateful for that. I don't think that these things happened necessarily because the fireside was canceled; I think they happened because of the way I handled something happening. I think that's important to recognize with anything in our lives–that things are going to continue happening, good and bad in our lives. I don't think it was because of the event got canceled. I think it was because I experienced something, and I was bound and determined to get the answers I wanted, no matter what, and no matter how long it took. I wasn't afraid of contacting people that before I would have felt were too important or prominent or busy for me. I was willing to go as high up as I needed to go to feel comfortable returning to the church, dedicating my life. If I had any doubts, thinking, “You're rattling the cage, can't you just settle it? Can't you just put this on the shelf? Don't ask questions,” I would just tell myself, “This is your salvation that we're talking about. This is everything. So if this is what you need, this is what you need, and you gotta own it.” And that's what I did.
I ended up having some experiences. One of the most profound for me was when we were having stake conference here in Kansas City. A 70 ended up visiting me in my home. And I thought, “Oh, well, I'm probably one of 20 stops or something.” He said that the whole weekend that he was there, he was going to two homes, and mine was one of them. I asked him to bless my home and dedicate it. I'd never had my home dedicated, and it was very spiritual. Certain verbiage and words used pointed out that my home was being dedicated to the Lord. It was just a very spiritual experience.
When I thought that we couldn't get any on a higher level of feeling Christ's love and feeling important to Him, my old stake president that I've stayed in contact with from before my mission, messaged me that an apostle was visiting our small, 12,000 person cattle town in the middle of nowhere, Missouri, four hours from the nearest airport, and he was going to be there in the morning, giving an address. This was no longer my stake, but I pretty much told them that I was working to get rebaptized, and I was, at this point, super exhausted, but I just felt the Spirit telling me out loud that I needed to go. It shook me. So I drove through the night and got there at about five in the morning after being up 24 hours.
While I was driving, I ended up messaging the church leadership down in my hometown, not expecting anyone to ever read it, especially not read it in time. I just pretty much summed up that I had left the church, I experienced a lot of trauma, but was coming back to the church. And I'd heard that this apostle was coming down, and I ended up getting to the chapel. There were several speakers ahead of him, but eventually he got up and spoke about something that I've never heard spoken about at a pulpit General Conference, honestly, not even in discussions, until recent months, and that was he spoke about the restoration of blessings.
Ashly
Wow.
Andrew
I had never heard of such a thing. I had served a mission. I was a convert. I dove extremely deep into deep doctrine, both pro and anti over the years, and I had never, at least in my memory, never come across something about restoration of blessings. When I started coming back to church, I thought, “Okay, we're just going to do everything all over again. I'm going to get rebaptized. I'm going to get reconfirmed, you know, a couple weeks later, I'm going to priesthood again, and then I'm going to go get a limited temple recommend, and then I'll get my endowments again, and we're just going to do everything again.” Then I was told no, there's a thing called the restoration of blessings. You get baptized and confirmed, but then after a year or more, you get everything all at once in one prayer. And so this apostle got up and he prefaced to everyone. He said, “Most of you have probably never heard of such a thing, but one of the powers or responsibilities that brings me the most joy is this thing called the restoration of blessings.” And he turned around. And at this point I was sobbing. I was bawling. I was sitting on the second row, directly aligned with this apostle. So he got up and started talking about restoration and blessings. I felt like he was looking at me for most of his talk. He just talked about how that's one of the greatest joys and privileges or powers or responsibilities that he has as an apostle. He said something along the lines of that they’re rare. I was just overwhelmed by the Spirit, and I was sobbing.
People were looking at me like, “This guy needs to get it together,” like, “What is going on?” Like, “We don't even know what is being spoken about.” At that moment, I felt important to the Savior. I didn't feel like I was one person out of 8 billion on the planet today, or I didn't feel like one in this endless sea of people. I felt Christ knew me by name. And you hear stories about how God sometimes will send somebody for this one person, and you're thinking, “Oh, that's awesome. That's wonderful.” But this was happening to me. It was just so powerful.
I met him, and then he ended up having to catch a flight quickly, or drive four hours to the nearest airport and catch a flight. But after he left, I was told that that wasn't his intended talk that he had. I guess he changed it or something. I had reached out to the stake presidency in the middle of the night, and someone had read it. I asked them to kind of pass it along to him about my situation, that I was trying to get baptized and receive my restoration of blessings, and then this all happened. I just remember feeling so overwhelmed by the love of the Savior, and I felt like that sustained me.
I ended up traveling now to Utah, where my good friend Michael lives, and I was baptized a couple weeks later on June 10th of this year, 2023. There were only a couple of us there. I wanted to keep it small. I didn't want it to turn into an event. I knew that the more people I invited, the more I would feel like I needed to host or greet everyone. So there was no plan, there was no program. I said all the prayers. I said the opening, resting and intermediate, and closing prayers. And it was the most beautiful day ever, and I'm grateful for it. I feel so sustained by God's love, and I feel called by Him to do something.
There are a couple of things that are in the works and projects, but I feel like He has something big planned for me to help Him, and I just hope that I can, and help as many of his children in the most positive way I can, just as a disciple. All I know is where I'm at now, I don't know where I'm going to be five years from now. I'm not really telling people where I'm going to be along this journey. For the first time in my spiritual journey, I feel completely connected to the Savior, and I don't feel pressured by people. I'm just doing it my way, the best I can.
Ashly Stone 43:14
I love that, so much. It's interesting how a lot of times–okay, this might be really silly, but there is this Taylor Swift lyric …
Andrew White 43:29
Okay, I was just at the Taylor Swift concert in Kansas City with Kylie and Megan.
Ashly Stone 43:36
Well, it's meant to be that I bring this up. I am going to the concert on Monday, by the way. But there is a Taylor Swift lyric that says, “I always thought love would be black and white, but it's golden.” And I cannot tell you how many times I have thought about this lyric relating to the gospel, where I always thought that it was black and white, you're good or you're bad, you're in or you're out.
Andrew White 44:06
Well, I'm not good, so I must be bad … ?
Ashly Stone 44:11
Right. Exactly.
Andrew
And I don’t belong …
Ashly
And you know, full transparency, Come Follow Me with my family is a major struggle. I know I want to do it. I buy these things
Andrew
You can’t do it all.
Ashly
and I think, “Oh my gosh, why is Come Follow Me so hard for me?” My point here is that the gospel isn't black and white, it's golden. It's golden and it's so beautiful when we reach a new understanding of the gospel in this way. And it's not about just everything being good or bad. It's about finding that true joy in the gospel, and you're giving it your all. I am doing my best, and yes, I am not great at Come Follow Me. I am not. But I experience such joy from living the gospel, and I experience beautiful, inspiring, spiritual experiences in my life that are golden, you know? And so anyway, that's just what it reminded me of when you said that it's like, “I don't know all the answers, where am I going to end up?” I don't know, being an LGBTQ member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, there are a lot of unknowns in that.
Andrew White 45:40
Uncharted territory, yeah. And to add to the golden light, recently, I keep on saying that white light or golden sunlight refracted, is a rainbow. It is every color. Someone made a comment. I assume they were church members, because they said, “Well, I don't understand the rainbow flag, or people having the rainbow flag.” And without any thought, I said to them, “Some of that color is for you. The rainbow flag is everyone. It's not if you're LGBTQ. One of those colors is for you, was fought for you.” White light or golden sunlight is everything. It’s all the colors.
Ashly Stone 46:31
That is so good, I think that it is so beautiful to see you decide to come back to church. You are choosing it because you've had these experiences that you can't deny. And even though it is uncharted territory, you're going ahead and you're living in that golden light. And I just, I love it.
Andrew White 46:58
And this is the last place I thought I would be in 2022, less than a year ago. I've had friends, both inside and outside the church. They've said, “We had bets that if so and so came back to the church … you were the last person on our list. We weren't even going to mention this, because you were never coming back to the church.” Because that was my story. I was so hurt, and I had so much pain, but I've had so much healing lately. And a lot of that healing has been actually from– and I understand this can resurface trauma, but I have reached out to some of these church leaders from my mission. I have reached out to some of these missionaries and companions from my mission and told them where I'm at. Some of them called them out and said, you know, “This is what happened. My mirror was crystal clear, and you caused a crack in it, and you were the first crack or the second crack in my window, or my mirror of faith.” That's been a huge healing opportunity for me. Most of them have been receptive. Some of them have not, but I still have peace with that. But yeah, I would have never guessed I would have ever come back to the church.
Ashly Stone 48:39
In regards to what you were saying about reaching out to these people, I think that a lot of people just completely do not understand the LGBTQ community. They don't understand what they have gone through. And do you know, one of the things that really opened my eyes was Papa Osler’s podcast, which you were just on, and it's funny, because I was just on it too. So we were both right next to each other, which is funny,
Andrew White 49:11
I know. I enjoyed your podcast. I want to go back and listen to it again.
Ashly Stone 49:17
I know I need to listen to yours. I just realized that what I thought I knew about the LGBTQ community–and especially in regards to the church–is so far from what their experience actually is. I think that a lot of times people make comments, and they think they know, and maybe they share advice, but they really have no idea. And I think by you saying something, I think that it really can help, even though for them, it's probably really hard to hear. It can be a learning moment for them, to hear your experience.
Andrew White 50:05
I'm just one voice. I only know my own experience, and I'm still learning about other experiences. I would be doing a disservice if I thought that I could speak for the entire LGBTQ population. I definitely still have a lot to learn myself about what others experience, and face, both the good and the bad. But throughout this journey from 2010, when I first joined the church until now, 13 years later, if I've learned anything, it is that Christ is nothing but love. And I said this in a talk recently, if there is an element we haven't found in the universe that we're transfigured to in the twinkling of an eye called Love, then that is the element that Christ is completely composed of. That's the biggest thing that I've learned. And secondly, people make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes, and sometimes very big mistakes. I don't feel like what pulled me away from the church was me experiencing one lay church member making this comment or that comment, or this dig or that dig, it was on a stake presidency, 70, apostle, prophetic level, that I felt hurt and I felt ostracized and unwelcome. And since some of those things have been remedied by policy changes and this and that, I've come to realize that even the people at the very top, they're still mortal, they still make mistakes. They are still very much shaped by their upbringing and their time and the culture of their generation, as much as they try to remove themselves from the world, they are still from the 30s and the 40s and the 50s.
Ashly Stone 52:35
Literally, this has kind of been a theme on the podcast lately. It's funny because my mom listened to the episode that we just did with Landon, and he brought this up, about how the apostles are human;
Andrew
Yeah.
Ashly
It is God working through humans. And my mom mentioned, “Look at the men of the Bible. They did some wild things.” You know what I mean? And God still works through them. And that's been kind of a common theme on the podcast lately, and I'm glad you brought it up, because I think that is something that a lot of people struggle with, and they need to remember. I think that some of the people that I look up to the most, that are some of the most spiritual people I know in my life, I hear them make comments about why people leave the church and things like that. After doing this podcast, I've heard many, many stories of why people have left the church, and I'm thinking, “Okay, they don't leave the church just because they want to drink coffee and alcohol. That's not it, you know?” And so you're right. They are shaped by their upbringing. They are shaped by their experiences, and if they don't have those experiences, then they don't know.
Andrew White 54:06
That applies to anything in life. And still, for those of us from our generation, that we're completely shaped by as much as we try to align ourselves with the Savior and transcend our time or our culture. We are still products of our upbringing, and changes have happened over the years, and I've come to realize that Zion isn't sameness, but it is the embracing of diversity and people having different experiences and different backgrounds, and some harder than others, but all coming together to expand this tent that we call home. But we do need to expand the tent of Zion, and I say not only for there to be room for everyone, but for there to be room for everyone to breathe. Everyone needs to have space to breathe and grow and thrive. I hope that I can play a small part in that, but I'm grateful for those that have supported me and also those that have gone before me that have made this possible. I feel like when individuals think, “Oh, how could someone leave the church?,” you don't have the full story. And sometimes we even wonder, looking back on our lives. I said a prayer before we got on this podcast, saying that I don't even know my full story. The only person that knows everything, the inner workings and the back of the stages, is God.
Ashly Stone 55:59
I love that so much. I've gotten a couple emails from people that were kind of upset with me, and they said, “You know, it seems like you're saying that you have to leave in order to really have a super great testimony,” or whatever. And I don't think that's true. I think that you clearly went through a lot of anguish, and you went through a lot of pain. And the beautiful thing is that God can work all things to the good of those who love Him. And so you did have to go through so much, you know, to the point of you asking yourself, “Do I leave the church, or do I end my life?” And that is an extremely hard thing to go through. I think that, no, we're not saying you have to leave in order to gain a really strong testimony, but what we are saying is that if you have left and you're going through something really hard, that God can work that to the good if you let Him.
Andrew White 57:06
Yeah, and I don't feel like I left the church. I definitely don't feel like I left God, or that God or the Savior left me in some aspects. Sometimes I'll say I didn't leave the church, aspects of the church left me. I wasn't the one that did XYZ. I wasn't the one that discriminated or harassed or assaulted or abused or this or that, that was done to me. The church let me down. The church didn't, at least at that time, either on a local level or on a global level, foster an atmosphere or environment for me to feel like I was welcome. I don't feel like I left Christ. I did have periods of times of doubting whether there was a God or a deity. But when I would have spiritual experiences and remember the Savior, those doubts would fade away. I don't think that people need to leave the church to find God, but we know we haven't reached Zion yet when people feel like they need to. I've heard wonderful stories from church members and wards that in various parts of the country, one that comes to mind outside of Washington DC, that any walk of life or any family dynamic or structure feels like they can come to church and whether they're married to someone of the same gender or single, a single parent, or they're single and they're trying to adopt, or surrogate, or whatever, for them in at least some of these wards that I've heard about, it's a no brainer for them to stay in the church. That's their community, and that's where they feel the most welcome. We all need to foster that in our own areas and in our own stakes. When people are going through events in life, as everyone does, instead of them questioning themselves and thinking it's a no brainer to leave the church, that they feel like it's a no brainer to stay in.
Ashly Stone 59:34
I love that, so much. That is so good.
Andrew White 59:39
We haven't reached that yet, but we keep on trying. It takes every last person to make themselves known, and if they don't understand something, whether it's LGBTQ topics or other topics that they don't understand, they have to educate themselves. Ask questions. You're going to make mistakes. You're going to ask dumb questions, but it's okay. We all ask dumb questions, and we learn from them, and that's the only way we can grow. And if you do love your brothers and sisters, make yourself known, especially to the youth, that you are a safe place, that they do have a place in Zion, free of judgment. God is patient. He's far more patient than we are. He is patient enough to watch someone make a mess of their lives for decades after decades after decades. But in the grand scheme of things, He knows the plan and it's mastered. Someone leaving the church is not the end of the world. If your child leaves the church and they are happy, rejoice that they're alive and be patient for a latter day.
Ashly Stone 1:01:07
That is such a great way to wrap up our episode. Perfect. Just put a bow on everything we talked about. Do you have any final words of advice, specifically for parents of LGBTQ kids, or anyone in the LGBTQ community that feels like they're struggling because they don't feel like there's a place for them here? What advice would you give to somebody in that situation?
Andrew White 1:01:39
I would say to parents, show your love. You saying, “Oh, my child knows I love them. I don't need to show it,” is false. They don't feel it if it's not being shown. I've been extremely blessed that my father has, and my incredible stepmom, and my family has shown me love. So I would say to parents actively, go out of your way and show your LGBTQ children that you love them. Be patient with them, whether they told you about their life 10 years ago, 20 years ago, or five minutes ago. They have been processing this for a long time. They are sharing it with you because they want you still on their path. You're better off loving them and listening to them. To LGBTQ individuals, I would say it's very hard to do this when there's so much noise around you, but focus on the love of the Savior. I'm still figuring it out. I don't think anyone has the answers, whether they have a child that is going through an experience, or if they're going through it themselves, but the Savior is it all, but love yourself and be patient with yourself.
Ashly Stone 1:03:17
That is so beautiful. Andrew, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. You are so amazing. I'm so glad that despite our technical difficulties earlier … yeah. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Andrew White 1:03:32
Well, thank you. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Ashly Stone 1:03:37
Yeah, of course.
