"One day I get on my knees and say, ’God I'm all in, but I cannot not drink a beer again or give 10% of my money and wear garments if I don't know. I promise I will help bring people to you and be all in but I have got to know.’ A few weeks later I was having a hard time again and I walked into the bathroom and saw the Book of Mormon sitting there. As soon as I see it I have this thought very clear and very strong, ‘The answers to all the problems in your life are in that book.’ It was super powerful and hit me hard. My feelings of sadness went away and I could tell that was God talking to me - that was personal revelation."
Come Back Podcast
Transcription
ASHLY
00:14
Well, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. I mean, you didn't go super, super in detail in your e-mail and so I'm really excited to hear all of the things that come along with the Shane comeback story.
SHANE
0:28
Well cool. Thanks for having me. So I grew up in Far West, Utah, just north of Ogden. Pretty much my whole life. I'm a principal at an elementary school.
ASHLY
Nice!
SHANE
Yeah, so I taught for a while and ended up going into teaching. Married to my wife, Jackie, for, geez, 21 years. Yeah, 21 years. She was 19, I was 21. Never went on a mission. We have 5 kids. For fun, I love to hunt. Love the outdoors. Love football. Yeah. So, three girls and two boys. So yeah.
ASHLY
Awesome.
SHANE
So growing up kind of in the church, kind of not. We went here and there, didn't really like it, thought it was boring, you know, didn't really feel a need to go. I'm like, “Why do we need to go to church? I’m fine, I don’t need church.” Me and my brother, kind of, we're kind of wild growing up and I loved, I guess I kind of love being a rebel a little bit. And I thought, and honestly, I thought church was kind of nerdy. I'm like, “Yeah, that's not for me.” I did always believe in God. I did have a bishop in my teen years, that he understood me, helped me a lot, even though I wasn't active and he knew I wasn't going on a mission. It was actually perfect because he himself was a partier growing up and he never served a mission. So he got me pretty well. That was really, really lucky I had him.
1:55
So he helped me a ton. He saved my life honestly, in a lot of ways. Anyway, so I get out of high school, go into college, I get like a 1.7. I'm like there for the party scene, I don't even care about the school. I'm working at Harman's in the meat department. I meet Jackie, my wife, so she's a checker at Harman's, and she's still in her senior year of high school. So we start dating. She was active, but we were just young, having fun, not religious really, just having fun. So we start talking about marriage. Her family was pretty religious. Mine, not so much. Talk about getting married in the temple and it's like, “Oh, you can be sealed together forever? Well, that sounds good, let's do that.” That's as much thought as I had put into it.
2:46
So I'm like, “Yeah.” And so I had, we had some repenting to do and had to take care of some things, that bishop that I had for my teen years was still my bishop. I'm convinced if it wasn't for him that I would have not got married in the temple. He was awesome and he understood me. And anyway, so he worked with us and we ended up getting sealed. You know, life goes on. I'm going to church, I'm teaching some 10 year olds, you know, I don't know what I'm talking about. Just kind of joking around with them and having fun. I mean, they liked me, I liked them. Because we eventually have a baby. So at this time we've been married almost five years. We wanted to have fun and stuff before we had kids. So we have a baby. Soon as this baby was born, my first girl, I loved her. I loved her more than anything. Right when I saw her, I could tell, like, it's just different. It's a different kind of love, you know? And I would do anything for her. And I don't know if you have daughters or not, but I think you do, actually.
ASHLY
Yeah.
SHANE
So a daddy and a daughter's love is very, very special, very different. Anyways, it comes time to bless the baby, right? I go in to the bishop and he's asked me all the questions. And I'm like, “yes, yes, yes.” “Do you believe in Joseph Smith?” He asked, “Do you have a testimony of God?” “Yes, yes, yes.” And he's like, “Do you pay tithing?” And I said no. And he's like, “Well, OK. Tell me about that.” And I'm like, “Well, I'm going to school full time. I'm trying to work full time as much as I can. Jackie's home with the baby.” When I said, “Man, I can't pay tithing. I can't.” And then his response was, “Well, then you can't bless your baby.” So at that point, that was just the straw. I'm like, “I'm done.” That's the straw that broke the camel's back. I kind of deal with a little bit of, I got a guilty conscience, a little bit of scrupulosity. And so I feel a lot of pressure. I feel a lot of pressure. Like, “Good heck, can I really not just go have a beer with my brother and dad? Really? Do I really got to wear these dang garments? And, you know, they're like, so uncomfortable sweating to death in the summer.” And then that happened and I'm like, “I'm done.” You know, I'm like, “I don't care if you're a murderer, you should be able to bless your own baby. In hindsight, that bishop made the right call. But at the time I didn't want to hear it. And I think, you know, bishops, they say they can discern kind of what their ward members are dealing with. And he probably knew. And I know God knew I was one foot in, one foot out. I'm like, “Yeah, I want to bless my baby. Yeah, the church is a good thing,” but I had pretty much zero testimony. So he says no. So I'm like, “OK, well, we're done.” Got offended, which was, you know, my fault. Whenever you're offended, it's really your own fault. Never backed down, but I'm just bashing him. I’m like, “Ah, he's an idiot.”
5:50
Anyway, we start, kind of, moving away from the church, and honestly, I honestly felt relieved. I was like, “Thank goodness! I don't have to get up and bless the baby in front of people, I don't have to pay tithing, I don't have to wear these uncomfortable garments. Like when I go hunting with my brother and dad, I can have a beer without feeling guilty.” And I was like, “Thank goodness.” I felt a huge relief, honestly. You know, life goes on. Start, you know, partying a little more. Nothing– I mean I'm still a good husband, I'm still a good dad. But you know, we're partying, well you know, just with family and friends, nothing crazy, but not keeping the Word of Wisdom type stuff. I guess I start talking to people that were like-minded as me, like, “The church is a joke, church is a fraud.” I didn't get into the real anti research. I was just going off on how I feel. I'm like “K, Joseph Smith. Wait a minute.” And you can find this right on churchofjesuschrist.org. It's like, “Wait a minute, he married a 14 year old? Wait a minute. He was marrying people, he was getting sealed to, to ladies that were already married?” And I'm like, “You've got to be kidding me.” I'm like, “This is a joke.” I was convinced that he was a manipulative pervert. That's what I thought of him. So it just further, kind of sealed the deal, like, that is such a joke. Like, you know, it's a joke of a church.
So things go on. Also, the thing with the blacks not having the priesthood, you know, I'm like, “What this, this …” And then all of a sudden they could. I'm like, “Hey, whatever.” I thought people that went to church, in my opinion of them … And that's the other thing. And I don't know if you noticed this too, but when I wasn't, like religious, I was so judgmental. And now that I am, I'm like, “Wow, Shane. You don't know. You don't know half of what you think you know.”
ASHLY
Yeah.
SHANE
My opinion was, you know, “These people that go to church, they're gullible, they're naive. They’re childish. They've never thought for one second and questioned anything. They just go with what they're told. Just blind sheep,” you know what I mean? Following blindly. That was my opinion of anyone that was religious. At this point, I even start doubting God a little bit, and I don't know if He exists. And the funny thing is, I'm having the time of my life. I'm happy. My job teaching. I love the kids. I love my job. When it's Sunday night, I can't wait to go to work Monday. Hunting's a big part of my life, a big part of my family's life. I'm shooting big deer, shooting bears. It's just everything's working out. Life's just great, right? Love life.
But, you know, God, chastens those who He loves. So life keeps going on. About [age] 36, I start feeling a little bit sick physically. I have this syndrome, it's called MEN type 1 [Multiple Endocrine Neoplasia type 1]. It affects your parathyroids, your pancreas and your pituitary. Runs in the family. And if you get checked you're fine, but it can cause some problems, could turn into cancer and stuff. So about 36, not feeling too great physically, even start having thoughts come to my head that I don't like, that are kind of bothering me, you know? And I'm like, “Well, whatever.” And I just keep trying to put it off. It got pretty bad. But my opinion, see, I was so prideful if I thought, “If you go to therapy, if you take medication, well, you're a sissy. It's in your head. Snap out of it. You guys are pathetic.” That was my point of view on things.
09:23
And so as you can tell, I'm needing to be humbled at this point. So anyways, I'm you know I'm starting to feel depressed now and I'm like, “Geez, Shane, you sissy, snap out of it. Like knock it off.” But I don't need God, I don't need anyone. My pride is just next level. Part of this MEN type 1, this disease, makes your calcium spike. So anyways, one day my calcium spikes very high. When your calcium spikes, you can't retain water. You can't drink water. You can't. And I'm throwing up like crazy. And my wife is like, I remember she's like, “That morning you looked like a big, big tough guy, by that afternoon, you looked like you were wasting away.” And I was just throwing up like crazy. So I go to the hospital and I'm laying there in bed. The pain in my side was hurting very bad. And at this point I'm just laying there in the bed. They gave me some anti nausea stuff and I'm waiting for the doctor. I'm literally waiting for the doctor to come in and say, “Well, you got cancer, you're going to get out in about two months.” So I'm just, I'm sure that's what he's going to say. So he walks then and he's like, “Well, we can't find anything. You look fine.” Well they take my blood, realize my calcium spike due to, I don't know if I … Anyways the parathyroids that this disease can affect, it makes it go into a tumor. It's not cancerous in the parathyroids, but it make it controls your calcium and so it had been growing and so it made my calcium spike. Your calcium controls, is connected to a lot of your hormones and everything. It really it messed me up bad.
When I was 16 I actually had the surgery to take them out, but they couldn't find them. And then I'm like, “Yeah, I'm done with that. I feel fine.” And so anyways, here we are 20 years later, and they do this scan, and turns out the parathyroids are supposed to be right here and right here, there's four of them. Mine's like, right here. So I’m thinking, “Oh, my gosh. Not only is there a tumor, it's clear down in my chest.” So they tell me they're going to have to do open heart surgery, break my sternum open. I'm like, “I'm not doing that.” I'm like, “No, but I guess I'll just die. I'm not doing that.” And so I find this specialist in Florida. For, I guess, some interesting information. So like the leading surgeon in most places in the US does like 20 parathyroids a year. This guy does 13 a day. And so yeah. And so I luckily find him and at the time it's a blessing, but I'm in no frame of mind to think about blessings. So I go down there and this doctor, he's the biggest jerk in the world. But he knew his stuff, and he's like, “Well, yeah, I'll go in and get it.” And so I come out of the anesthesia, and he didn't get it. He was just trying to go down and grab it. And he's like, “Listen, I've made every mistake in the book.” He's like, “If I go down there, if I kept going and I tried to yank that thing up, it's going to break in 100 pieces and you're going to have tumors everywhere in your body. He's like, so you're going to have to come back and have someone go through your ribs and get it.
So, long story short, I go back. They send a robotic arm through my chest or through my ribs, grab it, pull it out, and you got to have some of the parathyroid or you’ll die. So they cut up some of the pieces and plant it in my neck. So anyways that's over. One thing is my parathyroid hormone was like 398 and after that it dropped down to three and that is connected to a lot of other hormones and I've got, turns out I got this scrupulocity issue on top of things, so I'm very messed up, now. Like I'm super messed up, not healthy mentally. Tired physically and I'm kind of all over the place. So I'm feeling down, you know. So I come back. I'm having to take like because the parathyroid is buried in the thyroid, but I'm not getting enough calcium now so I'm taking like 70 calcium pills a day to make up for it.
ASHLY
13:19
Oh my gosh.
SHANE
Yeah, it was crazy, yeah. Anyway, like finally, you know this I have to take like 60, then 50 and it keeps dropping, but I am feeling down and I can tell I'm not good in my head. I start putting my happiness on hunting. I'm still not even close to thinking about going back to church or going back to God. And I'm like, “You know what, I just gotta …” You know, ‘cause hunting, you know, it's kind of my thing. And I'm like, “Well, if I can just get a big buck, and now you know I'll just focus on hunting and if I get a big buck now, that'll make me happy.”
13:52
And I know there's this saying, you know, “God wants us to have things. He just doesn't want things to have us.” And that's what I get into. You know, to a girl that might be being in the best shape, you know, or guy having all this money or being beautiful or having the kids that are dressed nice. For me, it's hunting. That's my thing. And so hunting kind of had become my god. So anyways, I'm pushing super hard hunting. I'm always away from the family. Not having any success. So then I start to even feel more down about myself which is kind of dumb. But I just, I love hunting. So anyway, I'm feeling like, “Gee, Shane, like you can't hunt. You can't do this. You can't do that.”
And in the meantime I’m leaving my teaching job to go be a principal. And so I'm leaving the job I love the most in the world to do something that I'm not sure about. And I was devastated because I knew my favorite part of the job is the kids. I was like, well, now you're leaving the classroom. And so there's a lot of stuff going on. I'm not doing good. And I'm kind of talking to Jackie, my wife, about this stuff. I decide, you know, just I'm not going to get on [medication],
15:02
I'm not going to see a doctor. I'm not doing anything. I'm still this super prideful person, and I start to feel a little better. I tell Jackie, the funny thing is, even at my lowest, I was “nowhere close to going back to that fraud of a church.” That is what I told her. I'm starting to do a little better, but then sure enough I start to do bad again. Now I'm in my second year as an intern principal. The first year I worked under some people that didn't really see eye to eye with me on how how school should be ran and how you, you know interact with staff and kids and so but I just had to kind of shut up and do what they said because I'm, you know, I'm not the boss.
15:43
So this next year I get put with this guy, he saved my life. So he's the principal and he also happens to be a stake president. He knows that I don't like the church. You can tell he loves the Lord, right. He handles every situation like he, I’ve seen him get hard situations and he handled it, he was so wise, and he handled it so well. I'm like, “Geez! I would have snapped at that teacher if she was talking to me like that!” Like for example, one day this teacher was screaming at him, then I'm like, “Oh, she's, well you better let her have it.” And he doesn't, you know? And she just kind of leaves and I'm like, “Geez,” I'm like, “whatever.”
16:26
And about half hour later the same teacher comes back in, and she's crying. And she's like, “I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry I yelled at you like that.” And I remember he's like, “You're fine.” He's like “This job can be hard. You are frustrated.” He's like, “Don't worry, you're fine,” and she leaves. And I'm like, “Oh my gosh, I would have ruined the relationship. I would have snapped at her.” And I'm like, “How, how did you not?” And I go, “Dude, you're amazing. How did you not snap at her?” And he goes, “She's got a good heart, Shane. I knew she would do that.” And I'm like, “Wow.” And so I keep watching him and watching him. He never talks to me about the church. By things he said, I can tell he loves God, and like he gets strength from God, you know?
17:13
And so all of this time, I'm still having a hard time. And so I watched him for about four months and I was impressed. And I'm like, “Geez, I want to be like him.” Anyways, I'm still going through this bad time. So one day I'm at home, you know during the school year when he's my mentor. I'm at home, and I'm on the bed and I start having these thoughts that are so disturbing and I'm pale. And I'm sweating and then Jackie comes in and I'm like, “Something's wrong. I am scared.” I told her, “I'm terrified.” And I'm just like, “I can't … These thoughts are so disturbing, and it's making me sick.” And I felt like I was going to throw up. She could tell I was pale. It was like a little glimpse of what hell might be like, I imagine.
Anyways, it passes a little bit and at the same time, which I think God gave me a lifeline, my sister is going through the exact same thing, which is so weird. And she's told me many times. Like, “Shane I couldn't have done it, I wouldn't have made it If you didn't understand.” She's like, “Because my husband loves me. He's there for me, but no one understood. No one understood but you,” and I told her the same thing. It's just so dark and miserable and it's like, geez.
ASHLY
These are all still symptoms of the same thing that is hereditary, that same illness that's hereditary, and your sister just so happened to have the same one?
SHANE
18:43
Well, so she doesn't have the MEN1 that causes the calcium problems. But there's something else going on in the family too, with you know with scrupulosity anyways
ASHLY
Got it. Got it.
SHANE
and stuff like that. And she had some surgeries too, actually. Yes, we have both been hammered, and we all, you know, I have 5 kids.
19:03
Four or three under the age of four. I got twin boys, she's got little kids and she had a surgery and no work to get stressful and I think our bodies were hammered physically from the surgeries and the hormones, maybe the stress of everything. It just is like too much. And also my wife, my gosh, I could not do what she does. I could not put up with me. And so I'm like wow. Like she was always there for me and I remember I just wanted to be close to her. She made me feel safe. I just wanted to be around her, my wife. And so anyways, this is still going on.
19:40
A few days later I'm laying there in bed. I've got the cutest little daughter, my youngest daughter, she's so cute. She's so happy. She's so funny, just giggly, I'm so lucky to be her dad. And so I'm laying there in bed and I can hear her in the hall and I can hear her giggling and laughing. And the thought comes to me, “I want to die. I just want to die.” And I'm like, what the heck? So I start kind of getting teary eyed and I'm like, “Hey, Dude, something’s seriously wrong.” And so I call in Jackie and I tell her, and at this point I'm starting to finally get like, I can't fight it alone anymore. And then I'm starting to break down a little bit and I'm like, “What is wrong with me? Like what is going on?” And it passes a little bit so I'm like I don't know what to do. So the next day my wife's cleaning this building right. On the weekend she would clean the building so I went to help, right. Like I said, I like being with her when I was feeling this way. I'm I'm walking down in a separate hall from her and you know up to this point I seriously got a pride problems, like “I'm not going to … I don't need help,” but I'm kind of almost to the breaking point, and I'm walking down the hall by myself and I just fall to my knees and I'm like, “God, I cannot do it anymore.” And then, you know what, I'm crying, “Please.” I'm like, “Just help me.” I remember saying, “I'm yours.” I remember saying that “I'm yours, whatever you want, I will do it. Please help me. I need you and I cannot do it without you. Please.” And I'm begging.
We go home. And I tell Jackie, “It's time to go back to church.” Time to, you know, in a way, become who you're supposed to be. So I'm like, “It's time to go back.”
So I start going back. I'm asking all these questions in church. I'm like, and I'm not asking him to be a jerk. I'm asking him because I'm like, I am tired of the skirting around the topics. I'm like, let's talk about it. I've got to know. So I'm asking about polygamy. I'm asking about the blacks not having the priesthood. I'm like, “Let's talk. What is going on here? Like why? What's going on?” And so we're having these discussions. And I remember the bishop comes over to my house one day, and he's like, “Hey, thank you for asking those questions. Keep asking them.”
And you know they could, I think they could tell that I was interested. But I'm like, “I can't fake it, I got to know.” And so anyways, I'm doing this. You know, I'm having my doubts. But I start hearing things that speak peace to me.
22:18
And I'm like, “Geez, I hope that's true,” you know? And I'm like, “Oh, how nice would that be?” I'm like, “Is that really true?” One day I get on my knees and I'm like, and I tell God, “God, I'm all in. But I can't not ever drink a beer again, I can't give 10% of my money, I can't wear these garments if I don't know.” And I'm like, “I promise you, I promise you I will help bring people to you. And I promise I'm all in. But I …” And then maybe it's a weakness of mine. I'm like, “But I've got to know.”
And a few weeks later, I'm having a hard time again. I walk into the bathroom and I see the Book of Mormon sitting there. And I see it, and as soon as I see it, I have this thought very, very, very clear, very strong: “The answer to all your problems in life is in that book.” That's the feeling I get. And it's super powerful. It hits me hard. And the feeling of sadness and everything goes away. And I could tell that that was God talking to me.
23:26
I could tell that was my personal revelation. I'm like, wow. And it hit me harder. Maybe one other thing has hit me as hard, it was another answer. But it hit me so hard, and it was clear to me that that was my answer, that this is true.
23:42
So I'm like, “Well, I know it's true.” If I say it's not, I'm the hugest hypocrite in the world. And so I've talked to my wife about this and I've asked her, “Have you got answers like that?” And she's like, “I haven't. I kind of, you know, I know, and I kind of get some feelings.”
23:58
And I've had some incidents, like two, three, four, which are so powerful. I think God does that for me because I have this weakness that he's given me of this scrupulosity, constant doubt. And I think He knows, like “Shane has got this weakness, he has a problem, he can't just go on with just like, ‘well, I think it's true’” because that's not how I operate. And he knows Shane needs answers and he needs them big time. And I think it's a trade off with my scrupulosity and the doubt I have that He has blessed me with super strong answers because He realizes I need that. So I got that answer.
24:43
I start going back to church. Well I've already been going, but you know I'm slowly starting and I didn't do it all at once. You know because it's hard to just go, “OK, here's 10% of my money, throw in the garments.” So you know I'm like I'm slowly getting there and getting there and getting there and getting there, and pretty quick though, but you know not all at one day. We get the temple recommends, we're going back. And the thing I love though about the church, I've had other questions about certain issues in my life, and I've been so blessed with the answers He's given me. There was one specific issue, He gave me such a clear answer. And I guess I just want to tell people, and maybe people know, but like, it's so cool when you get an answer from Him because there's no doubt! And I got problems with doubts. And there's no doubt because He can see your life all at once. He knows everything! He knows everything that's going to happen. He knows you better than you know yourself. And He can tell you even in the scriptures. Like, He can tell you things that no man knows, right? And that's what He did for me in a couple different ways. And then later in that scripture it says, “What greater witness can you have than from God?”
25:55
And it’s like, well, there isn't any! And so with my personality, I love it because it's like, “Dude, that's as good as you're getting. There's nothing better.” Then you get that answer from God and you can take it to the grave. And He knows everything. And then later in that scripture, you know, “Doubt not, fear not,” you know.
ASHLY
Mmhmm.
SHANE
26:13
So that's what happened. And the other thing that I'll kind of say is that it's changed my very nature. It's made me a more positive person. It's made me a better dad, better husband, because I'm not as selfish, although I probably got to work on that. I'm still kind of selfish in some ways, but I've definitely gotten better. One thing that kind of illustrates my change, it's a hunting story. It'll be quick, though, I’m sorry.
ASHLY
Ha ha! That’s great.
SHANE
I'm hunting with my wife. You know, we're back in the Backcountry. We got these pack goats and we're in there. On day three, I see this great big deer.
26:50
So I get over there and I shoot. It looks like I broke his back. Looks like he's dead, you know? But it gets dark and I can't. And so I'm like, “Gosh dang it,” I go down there, I'm looking, I'm like, “I don't even know where I'm at.” And so I'm like, “I'm going to have to come back in the morning.” So we go hike back up to the tent, go out in the morning. And I'm so excited. I'm like, running up the hill because I'm like, dude, I can't wait to just see what he is. Just touch his antlers, just see the detail. So I'm running up there and he's not there, and there's blood. And I looked for hours and hours. Hours, can't find him.
27:24
And I just remember thinking like, “The old Shane would have been pissed, would have been ‘Stupid this, stupid that. I can't believe this. Why?’ Like, ‘Jackie, why didn't you tell me where I could get him’ or just whatever, to make an excuse, and just be mad.” But I remember sitting there. I remember a talk by Uchtdorf, and he's like, “Thankful in any circumstance.” And so it changed me from being negative and mad and upset to like, “Look at you, Shane. You are in a beautiful place. You are healthy enough to be here. You hiked clear in here. You got a chance at a big buck. You made the memories of a lifetime with your wife. You are so lucky. Most people never even get this tag.” And it just changed everything. And I took those lessons I learned on my next hunt and shot a great big deer.
ASHLY
There you go.
SHANE
28:14
But anyway, it just changed me.
ASHLY
I'm glad you got it. I love that. I love it so much. So I have a question. What about Jackie? Like, where was she during this time when you decided to leave and come back? What was it like with her? Was she just like, “Yeah,” you know, she kind of was just in alignment with you and you guys were kind of in together? When you decided to come back, was she ready? Like how did she receive that?
SHANE
OK, so let me say one more thing. I just forgot. People might be wondering like, well, “Do you feel better now or whatever?”
ASHLY
Yes.
SHANE
So I wanted to say too that God could just snap his finger and be and you could be better obviously if you wanted. But He expects you to, you know, put in the work. And so through other, you know, praying to Him and doing my own work, He's given me answers and led me down a path to get healthy again. It just wasn't like, “Oh, I'm going to church, but I'm better now.” I just wanted to make sure people knew that.
ASHLY
Yeah.
SHANE
So anyway, sorry. So the thing about Jackie, she loves me so much. I don't even know what to say. Like, and I love her so much. This is bad, but she would follow me into hell. She would. And she did, in a way. She's just always there for me. That doesn't matter. She's there. And we're just meant to be. I really think you know, we're meant to be, and she knows how to handle me.
29:48
She knows if she tells me, if you would have told me, “You need to go to church,” I would have been like, “Nope,” and it would have best been a fight. But she loves me for who I am. Yeah. She'll just follow me into hell and back, which she did. And I love her, and I'm grateful for her. And I follow her too.
ASHLY
30:05
I love that. That's so sweet. So tell me more about the stake president and your story.
SHANE
Oh, okay.
ASHLY
And I think it's interesting because this is kind of a common theme that I see in these stories of coming back is that somebody will come into their life that is not a family member. And it's like they make such an impact. Like my husband has a story like that, where a bishop came into his life. It was in a work situation as well
SHANE
Yeah.
ASHLY
and it just had such a positive impact on his life. It truly changed the trajectory of his life. Just to see how this guy was interacting with other people and just to feel the Spirit when he was around this guy. And just seeing how he lived his life. And I hear that in your story too. And like there's other episodes that it's a similar thing and, I mean, in my own life, there's people that I'm just like, “Wow,” you know. “How could this not be true when this person is literally radiating light?”
SHANE
Yeah.
ASHLY
They are literally, just so intelligent, so wise and so, yeah. Like how that relationship, what ended up happening with him?
SHANE
31:29
Yeah. So like you said, like the way they handle stuff and you want to be around them, especially when you don't feel good, because it's like, I don't know they make you feel better. And so anyways he's now my boss, and I love him. We talk all the time. I told him he saved my life, but looking back he was, he probably knew, you know he knew I was maybe watching him. All of us need to be aware that people are always watching us, and everyone's having a hard time. And he just never would talk bad about anyone, ever. It's like you could not make him say anything bad about someone. He's always happy. He's just always positive. Like that story I told you about the deer. Like, that's something he would have done. And if someone says something bad about him, never offended. One teacher I remember, you know, called him a name, and he just kind of laughed, and he's like, “Oh, she's just having a hard time,” you know?
ASHLY
32:32
Hmmm. Wow.
SHANE
Yeah. And it was just like, and it was so easy too, he just could see things so clear.
ASHLY
Yeah.
SHANE
And yeah. And I'm still in touch with him to this day.
ASHLY
That's so awesome.
SHANE
So you saw someone like that too? You were watching them?
ASHLY
Yeah. It's just funny because some of the most successful people that I know that I look up to, I mean, not only are they successful temporally, but just the way that they operate in their life, they just have such an intelligence.
33:00
And I mean, it's just really cool to be able to see that, and I don't know, it's hard to put into words,
SHANE
Yeah, it is.
ASHLY
but I'm like, “Wow. I really, I hope that I grow up to be like you one day.”
SHANE
Yeah.
ASHLY
You know it's really interesting. And so hearing that in your story, it's kind of a common theme that I've heard. And I love what you said, it is important for us to operate in a way because it's like, who's watching you? Who's watching you today, saying like, “Wow. Shane. There's something different about him, and how he operates.” And I'm thinking it all the time, like when I'm at the store and I'm waiting for something or whatever, and I'm like, “I better have more patience because, you know, who knows who's like, ‘Oh that's podcast girl–is she …?’”
SHANE
Yeah. Well, you’re famous, now!
ASHLY
33:58
No, not famous. But I'm definitely like …
SHANE
No, yeah.
ASHLY
You know, if my ox is in the mire, and I'm at the store on Sunday, who’s gonna like …
SHANE
Yeah. Yeah. No, it's so true. And it's like when you get in a situation, if you think like, I mean, sounds cheesy, but if you're like, “What would Jesus do?”
ASHLY
Yes, it’s so true.
SHANE
You know, “What would he do?” And then that can really help.
ASHLY
Yeah, it's so true. I love that so much. So tell me those hard questions you had, when you were kind of working through those and answering those when you went back to church, tell me– I kind of have this opinion of my own that when you turn to God for those hard questions, that He will actually resolve them in your heart in a way that is like not of this world.
SHANE
Mmhmm. Yeah.
ASHLY
And it's like, if you're fighting with somebody on social media, and they're like, “Oh, but what about this, and Joseph Smith this,” and you're like, “Well, you know, I had this spiritual experience, and now like this …” You know, it doesn't work like that.
SHANE
Yeah.
ASHLY
It doesn't satisfy the critics. Like textbook response, but you turn to Heavenly Father to get these answers and it's like it becomes so clear in your mind,
SHANE
Mmhmm.
ASHLY
that they’re resolved. So I'm just curious to hear in your words like, what that was like to resolve those.
SHANE
Like you said, I think a lot of guys, they're like, “I don't want to hear the feeling, I want the logical answer.” Like, “I don't want to hear you felt the Spirit.” And I was kind of like that, too. It's like, “No, no, no, no, no, no. I need to know how this can possibly make sense to you.” And so for me, what ended up happening, is there's one scripture and I don't know exactly if this is word for word, but it's like, “God's ways are not your ways, nor are your ways His ways,” and it's “God’s ways are higher than yours” or something like that. And I remember thinking I'm like OK, the thought came to mind, “Did anyone, was anyone born out of polygamy that went on to do great things?” And I’m like, “Yeah, there was. Do I know everything? No, I don't. Does God? Yes, He does.” If the veil was lifted, like, I feel like a few times in my life, like if He's let me, like, just maybe catch a glimpse, you know, a little bit, it's like, “Whoa! Oh my gosh!” Like, “Everything's so clear!” Like, “Wow! I never even thought that that could be an answer, but yet, You just gave me this answer, which is better than anything I could have ever imagined on my own. And I'm so grateful for it.” And it's like, “I cannot believe how freaking smart you are,” you know?
ASHLY
Yes. Yes.
SHANE
And so I think it's just like there's good things that came from it, you know? And as crazy as it sounds, we might get to heaven and be like, “Oh! Oh, yeah, OK, I understand.” Did it make the church grow in a way? Yes, it did. Did people come out of it that did good things? Yes. So there's the logical part–I’m like, “OK,” but the truth is, I mean, go read the Old Testament. You want to talk about strange? Like there's some strange, strange things in there, you know. It's just we don't understand everything.
ASHLY
37:11
Yeah, totally. I love that. I love that answer. And It's funny because I just, I'll never forget when I had my hard questions surrounding polygamy. I went to my dad about it, and he just, he's like, “You wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for polygamy, just so you know.”
SHANE
Oh really?
ASHLY
It’s true. You know, like–
SHANE
Okay.
ASHLY
So it's just interesting how we see what's in front of us, but if we turn to Heavenly Father with these hard questions, we will find peace about them and we will come to an understanding that that is perfect for us if we seek that.
SHANE
Yeah. See, there's been people that do great things born out of polygamy. See, Ashly.
ASHLY
Ha ha ha! Hey, I'm not the one doing the great thing. It's all the people that come on here that are doing great things.
38:10
Well, Shane, it has been, you are so awesome. I just, I am so glad. We have this girl named Jenna who helps me, because I get so many emails coming in, and Jenna really helps me go through the emails because I work full time and I'm a mom and a wife and all the things and so it's hard for me to keep up on all the emails and so she emailed me yours, and she's just like, “Oh my gosh, we gotta interview Shane.”
SHANE
Oh, wow!
ASHLY
So happy that she did because your story is just so amazing. And it's interesting because you have so many similarities with my dad.
SHANE
Really?
ASHLY
He taught taught school my whole life and he now he's a professor at Utah Tech in St.George. And then just I don't know. You have a lot of similarities with my dad, so I just thought that was super interesting, and I don't know. It's just been so awesome to interview you, and your story is amazing, and I know that it's going to help so many people. So you said in your story, you said when you were saying that prayer, you told God that you would help people
SHANE
Yeah.
ASHLY
if He would answer you and give you that testimony, and you are, you're here and you're sharing your story. And I know that thousands of people are going to listen to this and it's going to help so many people. So thank you so much.
SHANE
Well, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. You're awesome too. I love your story, and you're doing a great thing, so it was fun talking to you.
ASHLY
Yes, it was. Well, thank you so much Shane.
SHANE
We'll see ya.
