"Statistically everything was against us at that point. I knew that I would never leave the church because of the spiritual experiences that I had. I had no doubt in my mind I could never give up Christ, the Church, and Heavenly Father and all my knowledge and testimony. I can't give it up, I can't give Joseph Smith up."
Come Back Podcast
Transcription
Ashly 00:00
This is Ashly Stone, and you're listening to the Come Back Podcast.
Your episode is one that people have been really asking for a ton. You have a story, and people really need to hear it. So let's go for it.
Wendi 00:30
I hope I can help people in the best way. That's what I've been praying for. It takes a lot of guts, I think, and hopefully, a lot of respect for my husband, because he's not able to share his story,
Ashly
Right. Yeah.
Wendi
So it's taken a lot of courage to be okay with this, so I'll do my best.
Ashly 00:52
Let's go ahead and jump in. Let's start with you. Tell me a little bit about you and your story. Give us some context there. Tell me a little bit about your faith journey. I know you kind of went through your own stuff, and I'd love to hear kind of some background about your story, and then I'd love to jump into the rest. This is a unique episode, because we're talking about your spouse, and you, and that dynamic, and we've had a lot of questions from listeners.
Wendi 01:27
Okay. I just want to say that everybody's story is different, and anything that I might say here, it's purely my opinion and my experience. So I never want to offend anyone or hurt anyone's feelings. So if I say something, that's not my intention. I grew up in a large family. I had really great parents. Gosh, I'm already getting emotional. Like, what the heck? I always had such a faith and testimony of the gospel. Maybe not always as strong as now, but I remember going to baptisms and crying, because I felt the Spirit so strong. I just was such a sensitive soul, I guess. And I always knew the gospel was true, but there came a time–and I do think this is pertinent to say in my story, that when I was about 15, I had a Sunday school teacher ask, “Do you guys know that the Church is true? You guys should pray about it.” And so I prayed about it, and that next week, during Sacrament, I had the most spiritual experience I've ever had in my entire life. It was like, so, so strong and so … I don't even have answers to everything that was there, and I still have questions, but no matter what, I knew that the Church was true. I knew that Joseph Smith was a true prophet. I knew that the scriptures, the prophets, everything encompassing temples, families, all the great values that the church has, there was no doubt in my mind from that day forward, that this was true. And I have never faltered from that because of my experience I had that day. I remember looking around, thinking, “Can anybody else feel this?” I didn't get to see anything, but I felt so much that I knew.
So I had that experience, and me and my husband, we met in a singles ward in college at ASU, and we got married pretty quickly. I was just out of high school. A lot of people have a lot of opinions about that, and I definitely felt that. Constantly, every time I faltered, I thought, “I shouldn't do this. I'm so young, I'm barely 19. Why am I getting married?” My answer was so strong, to marry him. And every time I faltered, I felt like angels were pushing me along, saying, “No, this is what you need to do.” And so I really did feel like this was exactly what I needed to be doing, getting married to my husband. We were married in the temple, the Mesa, Arizona temple.
Fast forward a couple kids, and we were living in a ward, and my husband met a friend. He would hang out with him, and they were just having good chats. Again, I'm talking for my husband, so this is my perspective. Of course, this friend kind of brought some doubt into him, and had him look a little bit further, gave him some links to look at things. We actually had been moving out of state at that point. So we moved out of state. Fast forward a year or two. I just had my third baby. We lived in Austin, Texas. There, I knew one person I had met online. I didn't know anyone. She was even about 30 minutes away, so I didn't really know her, but I kind of did. So I felt very isolated in this different place. Anyways, I had my third baby. It was a rough delivery, so I was trying to heal from that and try to cope with having a third child and all that, all the things that go along with that. My husband didn't renew his temple recommend, and I said, “Hey, you need to renew it.” Actually, I had said that before I had my baby. He had said, “Okay, yeah,” and he just wouldn't. I thought, “That's kind of weird. Why wouldn't he renew his temple recommend?” So after I had my baby, I said, “You really need to do that. What's going on? Is there something going on?” And so that's kind of how it started: he had doubts, and he kind of just kept it to himself for a little while, then it just kind of all came out. We had to go through that, but also our marriage was struggling. We had a lot to work on in our marriage. So it was like my health, and his faith crisis, and our marriage, and everything was in shambles.
Ashly 06:19
When he told you that, how did you feel? Because I'm sure you were probably thinking, “Whoa.”
Wendi 06:20
When he told me … And it's so funny, this was seven years ago, so it's been quite a while. I feel like I have to go back into that space, which is kind of weird because it has been so long. I don't remember exactly, but I do remember feeling a lot of pain. And a lot of anger, towards the person that brought these things to him. And he had said, “I always had some thoughts,” and throughout his life, he kind of had some questions that he kind of put on a shelf. I don't know, I can't speak for him, but I know his perspective or his story might be a little bit different. But from my perspective, I felt very angered towards this person that I feel led my husband away from the church. I literally felt like my whole life was gone, because, like I said, I was dealing with so many really hard things at one time. It was a really dark place, and it was really hard. I felt like I had the world on my shoulders. I'm trying to make my marriage work, and trying to help my husband, and that's the thing that actually I did wrong. In actually trying to help him, I pushed him more away. We'd have these conversations, and it would just bring so much contention in the room. We’d just be fighting, because I’d say, “No–this, this, this,” and he'd say, “No, you don't understand. You don't get it.” And so I was coming at it as if I'm trying to prove him wrong, and as if, “I'm going to tell you, because you don't know.” And so I learned really quick that you don't do that.
Ashly
Yeah.
Wendi
And so I had to just take a step back, and I actually looked, I looked at the CES Letter. I looked at some of the stories that he was looking at from people that had left the church, and he was gravitating to those kinds of people because he felt like it was similar to him. Because I wanted an understanding of what was going on. It was just such a whirlwind. I was just trying to understand it. I think that, because I have never had a faith crisis, I'm never going to understand them fully. You know, he told me he had anger and resentment, and a lot of these really big emotions with the church and I've never had those feelings. So I can't say what it's like, but I can say, in my perspective as a spouse and trying to to make everything work and make our marriage work, because our foundation was the temple. We got married in the temple, and we went to church every week, and we went to the temple together, and we did Family Home Evening, and we taught our children these values.
Ashly 09:31
You're going through all of this stuff, and then your husband's having a faith crisis. And I imagine that where you want to be, typically, the gospel is such a light, enduring rough times in life. And I imagine that having that happen at the same time with your husband is extremely– I just can only imagine what that would have been like, to have that darkness surrounding your testimony and your marriage.
Wendi 10:09
I think the hardest part was I had no family, no friends. I grew up in Arizona, and that's where we were married, and I knew everyone, because I'd lived there my whole life. Now I knew no one. Sure, I could call my parents, or my sister in law I would call sometimes. But honestly, it's such an isolating trial. It's really hard. I actually just told one of my really close friends that I was going to do this podcast, and she didn't even know about my story. It's just not a topic of conversation. And it's not that I'm scared to tell anyone, you have to just say it. It's not like other trials; my husband doesn't have cancer, so nobody knows that he's struggling,
Ashly
Right.
Wendi
and nobody knows, really, what's going on. So I really felt like, not only was I isolated, but no one knew anything that I was feeling. Even my friend that I had mentioned, she said, “I have no idea what that feels like.” And it's true, it's such a unique feeling. But there was an angel put in my place that I'm super grateful for, and it was a bishop. He probably saved my marriage and my life. I was just in such a dark place for so long. It's not that I ever wavered from the gospel. I was clinging to the Savior, that is the only reason that I'm here today. This was four years in, and it was just as fresh as if it happened yesterday. I'm sitting there, trying to teach my children, and I'm doing everything. My husband doesn't do anything as far as the gospel. I know that Heavenly Father knew that I couldn't go on without an angel put in my place. He came from the perspective of having his dad leave the church, so he saw his mom struggle. But he had the best communication, and the most compassion that I have ever experienced from a male or even just a bishop. He was exactly who I needed, and I could call him, talk to him, text him at any moment. It didn't matter if it was in the middle of the night, which I never did, but it was so great to feel like I had someone earthly on my side. I never felt like I didn't have Heavenly Father and Jesus and angels there with me, but to have someone physically there that I felt was in my corner, rooting for me and listening to me, because that was the hardest part. I was feeling all these feelings, and I was dealing with all this stuff. I had even talked to other people in the leadership, and they just didn’t have an understanding. And so I was seeking just some type of connection,
Ashly
Right.
Wendi
because I just needed to connect to be able to get through it. So having him there was so important. I know that my marriage and my life now is because of him. And that sounds funny, but he really, truly just gave me a listening ear, and he loved me with everything. And so I felt like it was like the Savior was in front of me, and I just felt all the good things, and validated. And so then, I could move through this hard thing.
My health started getting better. That was another big topic. I had some major, major health issues that I had to work through at the same time as all of this, and our marriage started getting better. It feels like I just hit rock bottom, and my foundation was completely gone. And Heavenly Father rebuilt it for me. He took everything. I felt like He took everything from me, everything that was good: my marriage, my health, everything, was gone. And so I feel like He made it even better than I could have imagined. And I don't know if that's everyone's story. I don't know if that's going to be your story, but I do hope that this is everyone's story, that He can rebuild us to be even better and greater, and have more joy than I have ever imagined.
Ashly 14:24
Yeah, for sure. Your husband is still not in the church, correct?
Wendi 14:31
My husband is still a member. He does still go to church with us. I kind of have a unique story. And I have heard from other spouses, or women or men that have different experiences. But for my husband, I kind of just sat him down. I said, “If you want to still be married, this is my boundary: you're going to come to church with me, or we're not going to make it. You don't have to believe, but I need your help. I can't be a single mom in church. I just can't do it.”
When everything first happened, it was like the dust settled and we were kind of trying to figure things out, like I said, with my health and our relationship and everything. And then about four years in, he was pushing some more boundaries, like stopped wearing his garments. Things didn't happen overnight. And that's something that I do believe, it’s how I've seen Satan work, in that it's little bit by little bit. It doesn't happen all at once, at least in my experience. He stopped wearing his garments, and he would say, “I don't want to go to church.” And we had actually moved back to Arizona at this time. Actually, it was kind of in between–we were still in Austin, but we were heading back to Arizona. I felt like he was just going to keep pushing boundaries until I told him to stop. I don't know, like I said I didn't want to be a single mom at church. And so I said, “Dude, you can decide. That is totally up to you, what you want to do, but I'm telling you what I'm feeling. And this is a boundary for me.” And so he comes to church.
Ashly 16:15
I wanted to get some context for where he was at today, because I think that, like you said, “I don't know if this is everyone's story, and I don't know,” but I think the the thing is, for you, the ideal case scenario would be for your husband to restore his faith and come back. But you're saying that yeah, it's not the perfect scenario, but you have been given this huge gift of peace. And actually, even though your husband isn't saying 100%, “Yes, I'm back, let's go,” you still are in a place where you can say, “Hey, my whole foundation was rebuilt, and I'm in such a better place, and my life is so much better.” That just struck me as really incredible, that you can recognize all of the miracles in this, even though maybe it wasn't exactly what you had hoped for it to be. You know what I mean?
Wendi 17:18
And see, like I had this whole plan. I'm glad you brought that up, and I might need you to ask me that question again, because there were like three things shooting through my head at this time. So I had this plan. We got married in the temple, we're gonna raise our children. We're gonna die and be happy. Live for eternity, right?
Ashly
Mmhmm.
Wendi
And I knew that I was supposed to marry my husband, and I did question. I thought, “Was I supposed to marry him, have a couple kids, and then we're done? Is that really what you were wanting me to do?” There were a lot of questions and trying to figure that out. In actuality, this was our foundation. “This is how we're supposed to live our life,” I thought. Like I was putting it in a box.
Ashly
Right.
Wendi
And Heavenly Father would say, “No, no, no. That's not how life works.” He took me into a place, and I had so much learning in this experience, so much learning that could only be through this experience. And it's funny, I will mention, and I didn't know if we were going to get to this, that I have a grandma who has a very similar situation as I. She was married in the temple, and her husband never went to church again. Hers is different. I often rely on her and ask her for help and strength all the time. So I'm super grateful that I have an ancestor on my side, on the other side of the veil. I just had these expectations, but God made it so much better. If we were just doing the same old, same old thing, like, what would my life look like then? Not to say that everything's perfect, because it's not, but He made it so much better than I could have ever imagined.
Ashly
Right.
Wendi
And again, my marriage is not perfect, but my marriage is good, and we have struggles, but it's really good. I'm just glad that I stuck it out. And I don't know if that's for everyone, because that's where your situation might be different than mine. I am glad I stuck it out as much as I kind of wanted to just give up, because we have such a sweet marriage, and I'm really lucky to have him. And to know that I can be married to someone that isn't in the church–that had never crossed my mind. You know how in Young Women's, you're making these lists of characteristics for spouses, and you're putting things like, “a really strong testimony,” and “taking you to the temple.” And you have all these dreams, and my dreams are shattered. But Heavenly Father is making my dreams come true in just a very different way. And also, my husband has agency and I have agency. We're different people than when we were first married. There are just so many aspects and flowing things in our relationship.
One thing that I actually just understood recently is that I was putting eternity in a box. Just because my husband is struggling right now, and just because he is where he's at right now, or like our situation right now, or where it was five years ago, it doesn't mean that that situation is going to be like that always.
Ashly
Right.
Wendi
That's what I always think of– “This is always going to be this way.” I think, “I can't do this,” but in reality, it's not always that way. And I was putting a limit on eternity. Eternity is forever. It doesn't stop, so you're always going to be progressing. You're always going to be going forward. That is why we're here. And so whether my husband never joins the church again, I might be okay with it. I still hope and I still pray. I've noticed some little things recently, and I don't know where he's at. In all honesty, there sometimes is an elephant in the room. We just kind of put it away; we don't need to have the religious conversation, because it can bring contention. So we just kind of do our life without that conversation sometimes. But I have noticed some changes. He stopped wearing garments a couple years ago, and he stopped doing the sacrament and stuff like that, and he stopped raising his hand to sustain people in the ward, but recently he has sustained people in the ward, and he started singing the hymns again. I don't know what that means. Do I want to know at this time? I honestly don't, because all I'm doing is just praying to see him as Heavenly Father sees him, and to love Him as Heavenly Father loves him, and to hope for the best. Because I have to give him that respect, knowing that he can choose. That was really hard for me to let go of. From my position as a woman, I kind of like to control. And so having no control over that, it's been a learning experience in itself. So these little milestones of seeing my husband, it's like, if he ever decides to be fully in it and have that testimony, I will be overjoyed. And if he continues to not be in it, it's still going to be okay. And I never thought in my time seven years ago that I was going to be okay. I was not wanting to be okay, but I had to become okay. So it doesn't matter what your situation is, you can still be okay in it. And I just rely on Heavenly Father and Jesus, because this is my life, and he has his life, and we're working together, but we just kind of have to respect each other. And that's another thing–dealing with the kids and what we do. And I know you had asked that question; that's going to look so different for everyone. I just kind of do it. It's all relying on me. And sometimes it feels really heavy. I have to do all of it, and I have to make all the effort. Sometimes he'll make a comment, that's a negative thing, so I have to deal with that. And what I've done is that I'll just say later, “Hey, that is Dad's perspective, or those are his thoughts and thinking, and here's my thoughts and thinking on it,” and so that they can decide for themselves. And quite honestly, I would rather them see the difference, or the struggle or differences in our home, than outside of the home. Because I can help them. I can pray for them more. You know, it's more of a controlled environment for them than going outside of our home and finding and trying to navigate that outside of the home.
Ashly 23:38
Oh my gosh, you are amazing. I just gotta say that, you are amazing.
Wendi
What? What?
Ashly
I just have the chills all over. You just dropped some serious truth bombs, just now.
Wendi
You’re going to make me cry.
Ashly
Just the way that you are able to just accept the “what is,” accept what you can't control, and be okay with the fact that Heavenly Father has a plan and we just don't know. Like, maybe he is going through exactly what he needs to go through to be exactly who God wants him to be. And if we force our path, and we force our way, like that is going to be a hindrance to God's plan. You know?
Wendi 24:26
I always said, “If he ever comes back, he's going to be the best missionary,” because he will have that perspective. And he's a really good teacher. He is. He did do some missionary prep discussions when he was struggling. They put him in that position, and he's an amazing teacher. He really is. And so I'm like, if he ever comes back to the church, he's going to be the best missionary there ever was. Well ever is now, because I just feel like he would just convert so many people because of his experiences in this. So I know, no matter what happens, it's not for naught. And I do truly believe that I knew, and he knew, that we would do this together.
Ashly 25:07
Yeah, oh my gosh. I love that so much. That is so beautiful. Okay, so for the second part of this, I'm sure, a couple of these questions you may have already touched on, I just want to ask them. How did you make peace with the fear that their faith crisis would result in you also leaving?
Wendi 25:30
Yeah, my husband actually brought that up. He said that, like, spouses usually go together or they get divorced. I thought, “Well, that's cool, because that doesn't look good for me. Statistically, everything's against us at this point.” That was what was going in my mind, because I knew that I would never leave the church. Because of my experience, I had no doubt in my mind. I can never give up Christ and the church and Heavenly Father and all my knowledge and testimony. I can't give it up. Can't give Joseph Smith up. Just trusting, that took so much, and prayer, and trying to figure that out, finding the peace. Christ is our peace. That's the only way we're going to find the peace. And I didn't have peace for four years. I don't want to minimize, or make it seem like because we have such a short time to share my story; it was a really hard, long road. I was grieving my husband for four years. It was as if he had died. So I don't want to make this sound like it was something light and easy, because it was the hardest thing, and I can say that, but truly, every single day, I felt like I was grieving my husband. So there was experience, and I guess I'm supposed to share this–because I don't know if this is going to happen for everyone–but I continue to pray and ask Heavenly Father to take this from me. I didn't want to feel this grief. I didn't want to feel this sadness. I didn't want … it felt like a dagger hit my heart every single time he made a comment about his mission. He never made a comment about the temple or marriage or anything like that. But there were just comments about the church, but I remember specifically about things like his mission and stuff, and it just put a huge dagger in my heart every time. About four years in, everything was taken from me. From four years to seven years, I'm seven years in, I don't have to deal with the grief and sadness anymore. That's not to say that I haven’t had a couple times when I would feel the grief come in a little bit. And I have to feel it, because that's what you have to do with grief. Jesus took it from me. And I hope and pray that those spouses that are struggling, that He would take it for them too, because it's something that I never wish upon anyone, to ever have to feel and deal with every single day, because it is very hard.
Ashly 28:02
Wow, so amazing. Okay, so somebody asked, “How do you not just panic and want to preach to them every chance you get?” Sounds like you kind of went through that in the beginning.
Wendi 28:13
I did that. I tried to tell him all the things, and tried to change his perspective and tell him all the things that he should be looking at. I was trying to shove it down his throat. That's not the way. That will absolutely do nothing. It angered my husband even more. And I don't know how this person would react. How do you not do it? Prayer, giving it to Christ. It's like your own journey of just constantly clinging to the Savior with everything in every aspect, because that's really, truly the only way that you can get through life, but also get through this trial. I just had to hold my tongue. And there's times that he'll say something, and I'm listening, and I say, “Okay, yeah,” but I don't agree with it, because if I say something else, it's going to bring contention. So the key is to keep the peace. Because truly, if you're yelling at each other or bringing contention, it's not going to do any good. That is for a spouse, a family member, a child, anyone. You really just have to love them. That is the only way. And you can show them through your example. My husband sees me, you know? He sees what I do. He sees me reading the scriptures, and he sees me praying with the children, and that's really the only thing you can do. You can put their name in the temple. You can fast for them. There's not really anything you could do to them or for them. They really have to figure it out on their own.
Ashly 29:59
Yes, I love that. How and when did you tell your kids?
Wendi 30:04
I haven't told my kids, but I do know that they catch on. My oldest, he’s 13, and between age 8 and 10, he had mentioned something about dad not thinking that. My husband has said stuff about tithing recently. My husband really struggles with tithing a lot, and so I think they know, but they might not know.
Ashly
Yeah.
Wendi
If that makes any sense. I haven't felt like I needed to say anything to them, per se, they get to see it in front of them and come to their own conclusions. Because if I tell them and put my perspective onto them, again, like I have to just give them their agency and let them figure it out. And again, I have the perspective of my dad, who lived in a house where my grandpa never went to church and never believed and my grandma went to church and did all the things. Almost all of my dad's brothers, he only had brothers, are in the church and strong, and my dad has an amazing testimony. So for me to see that perspective, I just pray and hope for the best for my children, because that's all you really can do. But I never felt like I needed to go and talk to them and sit them down. I just don't want to bring anything into the situation that doesn't need to be for them, because they are so little and I don't know exactly what they're thinking or their perspective.
Ashly 31:33
Yep, I love that. Also I can foresee that potentially driving a wedge by saying, “Well, you know, Dad believes this, but we believe this.”
Wendi 31:50
Exactly. I never try to tell my kids, “Dad is thinking this. Just ignore him,” or, “He's wrong.” I just bear my testimony to them. I say, “Dad mentioned this about tithing, and this is why I pay tithing. This is why I do it, and this is my testimony on it,” because that's all you can do. And then they can decide for themselves.
Ashly 32:14
Yeah, I love that. So did you have to make any adjustments with lifestyle changes, like drinking or language or friends or anything like that?
Wendi 32:24
Yeah. My husband, he's a major introvert, and he's comfortable with just me and maybe one other friend. He doesn't need a bunch of friends. He doesn't like social things very much. I mean, he does, you know what I mean. He's not seeking that out.
Ashly
Yeah.
Wendi
So the friend thing was never an issue. And drinking and swearing, I've never heard my husband say a swear word. He doesn't drink. He does have green tea, but that's about as far as the Word of Wisdom issues go. I just have to respect and give him his agency. But I want to say, if that was an issue, if there was alcohol or coffee or smoking or something in that equation, there would be major boundaries on my part to make sure that my children are safe. I know that I would, I don't know exactly. I do know that some friends make major boundaries, like, “Okay, you can't drink until the kids go to bed,” or things like that. I would have major boundaries to make sure that first of all, my children need to be safe, and I don't necessarily want that around them. So for me personally, I would make sure that that wasn't around when they were around. So I can't comment more on that.
Ashly 33:45
Right. You've kind of touched on this a little bit, but how do you keep your faith strong when, especially during that time you mentioned that you read the CES Letter? You were looking into the stuff that he was obviously struggling with, and what was your experience with that? With keeping your faith strong while diving into all of these anti-Mormon documents?
Wendi 34:11
It gave me a perspective that I know why maybe someone would leave, honestly. Because if I hadn't, I wouldn't have known anything. It was a very convincing letter filled with … I don't want to get into the technicalities of that, because that's not my place. And I know you've had someone on your podcast who I absolutely love, that's digging into it. I don't know his name, but I love it.
Ashly
Bridger, yeah.
Wendi
Yes. But when I read it, I was actually at the park with my kids, and my kids were playing, and I had my baby. She was probably four months old, maybe three months, and I remember just clinging on to her and just saying, “How are we going to do this?” Not in the perspective of, “I'm going to lose my faith,” but, “How are we going to do this together? We gotta do this together.” She was my strength. She is the most perfect child you can ever have, and I love her so much, and I'm so grateful because she came at the right time, which is crazy, because I knew she was there and she was waiting, but I had to wait about a year to get her to the earth, to have her, and I knew that she came at the exact right time. Because she probably kept me from— I don't know whatever would happen, something not good. But I remember reading that, and I felt so manipulated when I read that.
Ashly
Mmm.
Wendi
I felt very manipulated and nearsighted. It wasn't a large perspective. I didn't feel the Spirit. I felt it's convincing. I could see how someone could leave the church for the CES Letter. I have an understanding of why, but I didn't feel its truth. I didn't see, I just didn't feel the Spirit when I was reading it, and I felt yucky, and it didn't bring me closer to Christ either. I knew there
Ashly
Yep.
Wendi
that it wasn't right, for sure.
Ashly 36:28
How you're describing this, I'm envisioning in my head. The CES Letter is just so linear. It's like this straight line. And it's like the gospel has so much depth. We're not talking about worldly stuff. We're talking about the substance of life and the purpose of life, and what is beyond description to feel and to experience. And I feel like the CES Letter, it just has no depth.
Wendi
I like that. Yeah.
Ashly
Yeah, that's what I'm picturing when you're talking about that. What keeps you connected to your spouse now? You mentioned that you guys kind of leave that religious piece out. What keeps you guys connected today?
Wendi 37:17
Well, I have a little baby, so that's made it harder, but just going out on dates. I mean, research shows, no matter what, I think, you need a minimum of eight hours of conversation in the week, or something like that, to keep your marriage intact. You need to go out. And it doesn't necessarily have to be something expensive, you can just go walk around Target, or the mall, or, I don't know, you could think of so many different things that you could do for free. But to connect, that's taken us a long time, because, like I said, we had to rebuild our marriage, basically. And so finding that common ground has taken time, and space for each other to figure things out. Just finding something that you both have in common and that you love and just expand there. If you like hiking, do that often. Doing those good things that you guys are together in that you guys both love, it will just make the world of a difference in your marriage.
Ashly 38:29
I love that. I love that so much. So how do you suggest supporting a spouse or family member that is going through a faith crisis,
Wendi 38:39
Just loving them. I did mention that. Prayer, fasting, temple. And it's not to make them believe, because that's not our job.
Ashly 38:50
So good.
Wendi 38:55
It's not our job!
Ashly
So true.
Wendi
It’s not our job, because that's Heavenly Father and Jesus's job. They will give every opportunity they're waiting for that person. They're waiting for them to reach out. And I pray that he will be open to feel Their love. Because if he can feel Their love, everything else will be taken care of, right? Just loving them with everything you have, and relying on Heavenly Father and Jesus to do that, because They are waiting. And so when it is their opportunity, when they do decide, if that ever is in this life, or not, They'll be there for them.
Ashly 39:36
I love that. That is so good. What did your husband say when you told him that you're coming on the podcast?
Wendi 39:45
If you know my husband … I know my husband really well. We were supposed to do the podcast a couple months ago. I don't think it was supposed to be then. I can't remember how long it was, but it was a couple months at least that we had been talking. He was a little worried, he said, “That's not going to be my story. It's only your perspective.” And I said, “Well, that's what they want. They want my perspective as a spouse.” Because let's be honest, this takes a lot of guts. Only about four people in the world, besides heavenly people, know about my husband's struggle. I guess his family too, but not a lot of people know. So this is, like, earth shattering. Maybe there's going to be people watching this who will say, “I had no idea,” or maybe they had suspicions. I don't know. Initially he was just worried about how I was going to tell his story. And I said, “No, I'm gonna tell my side,” which takes a lot of guts, you know? But when I told him this time, he just kind of said, “Okay, whatever.”
Ashly 40:58
If he wants to come tell his side of the story. We will have him.
Wendi 41:02
That'd be really cool. Yeah, I don't know. He's a very private person. I don't know if he would do that. So I mean, for him to let me do this, it was like unwillingly, willingly letting me do this. So you know, I do want to respect him, and I hope I have respected him. He is doing the best he can, and I hope he knows that.
Ashly 41:25
Wendi's husband, you're awesome. So just shout out to Wendi's husband. His name is Matt. Matt. Okay, so Matt, shout out to you. You are awesome. This has been literally the most incredible episode. You are just so inspiring. And it's so incredible to just see how God works all things to the good of those who love Him, and how even the hardest challenges can be just the refining situations that we need to go through to make us who we are. And I am so happy that we did this tonight. This was so amazing, and I know that there are so many people that need to hear this. And just, thank you. Thank you so much.
Wendi 42:16
You're so welcome. My heart is like on the table right here.
Ashly
And people need to hear it.
Wendi
I just pray that those that need to know that they're not alone, please, reach out to me if you need someone to physically talk to, because that's what I wish I had. And if you know someone that's struggling, that's one of the things that I wish we’d talk about. You don't know what to do or say, but talking to the person and listening to what they have to say can help. My husband's struggling, but listening to my side— some people might talk to my husband about what's going on, but talk to the person that is on the other side of that and listen to what they have to say, even if you don't understand. I just wish that there was more support,
Ashly
Yeah.
Wendi
for us, because we need it. It is so hard to get through. And reach out to me. I'll give you my email or something.
Ashly 43:23
I can almost guarantee you that we will have a lot of people emailing asking for your email. The thing is, I feel like it's almost like people are afraid to really dive into why people are in a faith crisis. I mean, there's people really, really close to me in my life that I can see that are stepping away, and it's like you said, an elephant in the room, you know? And I I don't know what to say, and all I do is just love them exactly where they're at. And I've had my own feelings that they are going through exactly what they need to go through. But it's still kind of awkward. You don't know what to say, you don't want to say the wrong thing. And so I think just us as a whole, with the church, we do feel kind of uncomfortable, and it's not fair to those who are struggling and need somebody to talk to. We need to be open to this and know that people are going through a faith crisis. Let's be there to love them and support them, because it's really hard and challenging, and let's be more open, open our hearts and be willing to be there for people. And obviously you're clearly demonstrating that with just your willingness to be a support for spouses that are going through something similar.
Wendi 44:56
That's something that I think is a theme in my life. I've always wanted to carve out new space for things that I've never experienced, or maybe not talked about, and then those people come to me, and I'm able to be that person that I wish I had. And also in my ward, talking with my wonderful bishop in Austin, there were women, and I knew it, that were struggling with this, that had their husbands have a faith crisis. They're struggling, and I thought, “Let's do a support group.” Unfortunately, it didn't happen because the women didn't want to come forward. And I respect that,
Ashly
Yeah.
Wendi
and I understood that, and I think it's very scary to come forward. This is very scary for me. It's huge, because some family members don't even know what my experiences are.
Ashly
Mmhmm.
Wendi
This is such a hidden trial, it's hard to come forward. And I just wish that it wasn't so taboo, that it wasn't so pushed under the rug and just hush hush, because I think that there could be a lot of good with us supporting each other. I don't know, maybe I need to make a Facebook group, a Facebook support group, or something.
Ashly 46:08
Yes! Please do! If you do, we will share it on the podcast. You should, because it’s needed.
Wendi 46:13
Okay, I will, I will. Yeah, I mean, if I can be some for someone else, like, I feel like we're in this life, and we're trying to be the saviors for others too. In a small way, we're trying to be like our Savior, right? If I can be, in a way, a savior to someone, or just at least lift the load a little bit, in telling them, “I've been through this, and I know what you're feeling, and it sucks,” then I want to do that. Every trial that we're in is not for naught, so if I could do anything to lift that load, I will do it. So I'm going to make a Facebook page.
Ashly 46:52
I love it. Well, you make that, and then you tell me, and then I'm going to post about it, so that everybody can find it.
Wendi 46:57
I want to go into the screen of those that are like, so in a dark place, and I want to give them a hug. I wish I could.
Ashly 47:04
Yeah. And people need to hear this so much, so much. So I'm just so excited.
Wendi 47:12
I'm such a mess. Thank you for dealing with my emotions here. Okay. Awesome.
Ashly 47:18
Yeah, thank you so much! We'll talk to you soon.
